Documentary filmmaker Chien Wei-Ssu addresses Taiwanese youth, the state of Taiwan cinema, and why it was all better back then.
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After martial law was lifted in 1987, independent documentary filmmakers in Taiwan began to receive government funding for topics previously considered taboo. As the ruling Kuomintang Party lost political control to the nativist Democratic Progressive Party and Taiwanese people increasingly became excited about re-thinking their own identity, organizations like Taiwan's public television station, PTS, commissioned producers to make films about histories previously kept silent. Most of these films were not overtly political, but instead were packaged around "safe" topics such as music and Taiwan's older generation.
Along with Kuo Chen-ti, director Chien Wei-ssu made Viva Tonal -- the Dance Age in 2003, a two-part TV movie airing on PTS. Its surprising popularity led the producers to edit a theatrical version which debuted commercially in May of that year. Former president Lee Teng-hui publicly hailed the film for preserving the world of '20s and '30s Taiwan from the point of view of its pop music. The theatrical release became a small sensation, and earned best documentary honors at the Golden Horse Awards, Taiwan's answer to the Oscars.
After graduating from National Chengchi University in Taipei, Chien earned a masters in film from Ohio State University. She remained busy throughout the mid to late '90s producing video works and documentaries while lecturing at several universities in Taiwan. Chien was at UCLA this May for the U.S. premiere of Viva Tonal. -- Brian Hu
APA: Did you know anything about this era of Taiwanese music before you began the project?
Chien Wei-Ssu: No mainly because about three years ago, in Taiwan's Public Television Service, there was an experienced producer called Feng Xian Xian, who was also our executive producer. She knew our movie's lead Li Keun-cheng and knew he had some special collections of records and phonographs that people in Taiwan used from the Japanese occupation era. She had also gone to his house to see it before, so she thought wow, his records could be filmed into a documentary, but at the time she didn't have any special thoughts or ideas.
So she came to find me and called me, asking if I had interest in this. At first I didn't have any understanding of it at all because I hadn¡¦t seen a phonograph before or even touched a record. But because she called me herself then I thought ok, I'll give it a shot. So at the time I found director Kuo Chen-ti to come work on this project because he really liked this project -- we all really like music. But we didn't really know anything about the music from the Japanese occupation era in Taiwan.
So after we went to Mr. Li's house we were really excited because the first song he put on for us was "Dance Age" and there were such progressive ideas in the lyrics, and the music was really light. The music was very different from the Taiwanese music we listened to growing up. Before, the Taiwanese pop music we listened to was all really sad.
But during that era, the Taiwanese music was all very light as was the rhythm; this was a very popular music style. So I was surprised because this was all music I'd never had any contact with before, and because I think pop music reflects the atmosphere of that era. But all of this, in our Kuomintang education process, was completely wiped out. So memories of Taiwan during the Japanese occupancy, to us, is completely blank, even though it wasn't very long ago. It was our grandparents' generation, during their youth. But we didn't even know anything. So it was through Mr. Lee's records and phonographs that we discovered something that belonged to regular people's lives and the culture of the music that we didn't know. This provoked our interest and curiosity and we took it from there.
APA: When you were doing research for the documentary, was it difficult to find materials?
CWS: Yes. Actually it was pretty difficult. But besides Mr. Li's phonograph and records ... they were of course very important because the phonograph and the records were what Taiwanese people used before. And the sound, that sound is the sound of an era, but in addition to this, it's because in the past, the KMT government denied the history and culture during the Japanese era/occupancy. So they destroyed a lot of architecture and information, and because the KMT government emphasized the culture and traditions of China, it really didn't emphasize or respect Taiwan's culture and traditions. And because the entire education system was in this situation, as the generations went on, a lot of the footage just disappeared. So in this film, I think there were two parts that were difficult. Number one: some information, the documentary, the old documentaries, I know they're preserved very well in America and Europe. Children are able watch them from a young age, especially those films of the 50's and 60's. But in Taiwan, we pretty much are unable to see any old films and images from the past. So we had to go to the Taiwan film archive, to find the little they had -- the images from the archive.
And it was very expensive, to use one second of the film cost us $300 NT.[laughs] So on the copyright portion, we spent a lot of money, and part of this was the music copyright. Because in the movie we used a lot of music, so a lot of the composers' descendents had their own suggestions. So we couldn¡¦t use some of the music, or had to pay some fees for it.
Another difficult part was that the people, like a first generation singer, Sun Sun and a lyricist, Chen Chun-yu, died really early and Chen Chun-yu has no descendents, so information on them was really difficult to find. It was pretty much us going to the library and piecing together every detail we could find.
So when we were doing the film, even though we went to find information from that era, most of it was text, and there were two very big parts: politics and economy. Or else it was talking about Taiwan, like how Taiwan resisted and fought back. So it seemed like that was what all the history was -- how they resisted and fought back or how the KMT government saved the Taiwanese citizens, but really what was important was in regards to how the people lived and what their entertainment was. There was very little information, and even fewer pictures, so in regards to this part, collecting footage was most difficult.
APA: I noticed that the documentary directly addresses young people. There are also references to contemporary pop music, such as Jay Chou, Andy Lau, and electronic music. What are you trying to tell the newer generation?
CWS: Um, actually because we were hoping that they have a connection. Because nowadays young people, right when they're born, they see CD's, but CD's actually came from records, and so-called pop music ... this all came from the actual machine. The earlier edition of players had no deck and you had to wind it up to hear the music. What the origin was -- to let them understand the origin of pop music and where it came from. And the other thing is that Taiwanese pop music, especially with young people now, they all think that Taiwanese songs are low class and have a big Japanese influence. So all the mainstream music in Taiwan is Mandarin. But when these youngsters hear the Taiwanese music from the Japanese occupation era, they have a very different feeling -- they think the lyrics are very close to their mindset and feelings. So I feel that it¡¦s good to let them have this way of thinking.
They actually think that the pop music now mixing in English is a current trend, but in reality 70 years ago, Taiwanese music already had that trend of including English and dance music. Now we follow a lot of disco and hip hop. But in the past it was already like that, but maybe instead it was following blues and the fox trot. Letting them know that there's this kind of handing-off is important. But more importantly, to young people, like me, that they develop a deeper understanding of the history of that era. Back in my day the history texts, the sections on Taiwanese history only had three or four pages and that was it. Most of it was studying 5000 years of Chinese history. Between 1895-1945, that Japanese period, with eight years of fighting, and how Japanese people fought the Chinese -- of course this is very important, and it's a part of historical truth, but in reality, what actually happened on this land, we aren't familiar with it. This wasn't even that long ago. It was just when my grandparents were young, but even so, we don't quite understand.
So I think young people, it's necessary for them to know what happened in the past on this land they live on. It's very important for identity. It's not just looking back and seeing all the history from before as being invaded, being shamed, and being held hostage -- all the really bad parts. But in that era, we also had fill in some things when Taiwan was modernizing and starting to connect to the world and starting to accept the multi-faceted culture, a sort of assimilation. So Taiwanese people started thinking how to pave a road for Taiwan. The musicians and artists then were already thinking about that problem. So to people now this is a very important legacy and tradition. So it's a tradition and something you feel like you can be very proud of. So it's necessary I think for young people to know. But of course not through preaching. It's more through pop culture, or entertainment, so they can actually understand and get a feel of Taiwan and its then-already modernizing phase. I think a lot of young people now, if they watch it they'll think it's interesting and funny.
For example, the song "mao duan hsiang bao," this song, "mao duan" these 2 words are actually a transliteration of "Modern." Or if they see an old house -- it's actually a house built in 1921, but the walls will have "equality" and "liberty" inscribed on them. So this shows that when they see these words, they're surprised. Because now they understand that the intellectuals from that era were already seeking freedom and equality. It didn't just start from their generation. So this kind of message to them, or even to me, is very important. So I hope that because the young people of Taiwan now and the past ... It's a broken situation; Taiwanese people don't have a sense of history and don't have a feeling for history. So we hope that this movie can build that bridge. Let them spark an interest in the past and develop interest in their grandparents' generation and help set forth more dialogue. I think this part is very hard, but in truth, the film has achieved this goal too.
APA: Do you feel there is a connection between the current trend of Japanese culture among young Taiwanese and the nostalgia many older Taiwanese have for the Japanese era?
CWS: Oh, it's different. Why is it different? Because Japanese culture now --Taiwan has the so-called Japanese fanatics. Young people like what's trendy, like Shinjuku, that area in Japan. Or even Japanese soaps are very popular in Taiwan. Taiwan people like Japanese stuff but that's all the young people. But a real love of Japan, it belongs to our older generation. Because that was when they were really young and usually you have good memories associated with that. So at the time they were in touch with really Westernized, advanced stuff and good culture from Japan ... this was all stuff that had a significant influence on them. So when they come to see our movie, especially the older people, they know how to sing all the songs. So when they're in the movie theater they can¡¦t help but start singing, and it's something they're nostalgic about. So they can kind of tell that Taiwan people and Japanese people are different, because they were second class citizens. And because later when the KMT came to Taiwan, because of the culture gap -- that was why there was the 228 incident -- it resulted in a very unhappy historical incident. So then Taiwanese, older ones, after some comparison, they think that the Japanese government actually treated them better. So I think that's two different sides of nostalgia.
APA: I noticed when I was in Taiwan that there are two versions of Viva Tonal on DVD: a film version and a TV version. Can you talk about the differences?
CWS: We had to make a TV version. A public TV version because PTS [Public Television Service] sponsored us, probably one-third of the funds. And of course the PTS producers -- they initiated the idea. So we really appreciate and thank them too. So the deal then was that we do a TV version and that they own the rights to the TV version. So then the TV version, at the time we could only do one-hour episodes with a one-week gap in between. So when we thought about this, we targeted it more toward the television audience. The narration was very different, a more objective, third person narration. And it had to be over in 56 minutes, and it had to fill up the time slot too. So we had to edit it into a format that would fit the needs of television.
And another was that because the second episode was airing a week later, we thought, what if people who only caught the second one couldn't get into it? So when we chose to edit, we made some adjustments according to these kinds of situations. So the television version, after we screened it, we got a lot of feedback and comments from people -- most people were happy to see this film. But because the movie is different, I edited a different movie version. So in between, we actually did some more shots and more interviews, so in the movie version, the narration became a director's narration. I think this actually fits the actual situation better, because when we were shooting the film, it was more of a searching process, searching for our own pasts. Basically, these are the two differences.
Something funny is that when the television version was about to come out, Taiwan had the SARS scare. At the time, I remember the second episode was supposed to go on the next week, but at the time all the television slots were being taken by SARS special programming -- so the second one was delayed for two weeks. A lot of people saw the first one and were waiting and waiting for the second one. So I think with broadcasting on television sometimes, you get these problems. On television, you don't even know who the audiences are or what their reaction is.
But when the movie version hit the theaters ... at first we started out in the President Cinema, and it screened for 3 weeks. At the time I was touched because we were able to see the audience and they'd tell us what they thought about the film. So I think the best thing was, usually in the morning a lot of elderly people came to watch, and they came together -- a bunch of them together -- and they were really happy watching it together and it brought back a lot of memories. So at night it was a lot of old, middle-aged and young people together. In terms of domestic films, it¡¦s been a while since all three generations have been able to come together to watch a movie in a theater together. So in a theater, whenever I see a scene like this I become very touched.
APA: You've mentioned many of the disadvantages of making a documentary with PTS, but are there also advantages?
CWS: The biggest advantage is we got money from the television company. We got some of their sponsorship; we spent about five million from production, not including costs of playing in theaters and distribution. From the Government Information Office, we got about two million and PTS gave us about 1.6 million. So this money was all very important. If there wasn't this money we probably couldn't pursue a better quality film. Because we used a 16mm to film, and because that kind of film is more expensive. And there were so many copyright problems to get rid of. Mr. Li, who provided so much material, we had to give him a lot too, but he spent a lot of money as well. So I think the money was a very good advantage.
Later, PTS, because they had the television version, they could sell DVD's with their version -- and we didn't own the rights to this part. It should be symbiotic, but now we have two DVD's. And there are two owners. So for the movie we have our rights, but the television version has their rights. Now it's like we're competing against each other. But PTS is ok, and they belong to the government anyways, and the film is promoting that so there's not too serious of a problem. But there's still an impact, because a lot of people can't get the television and movie version straight.
APA: It's been said that documentary filmmaking in Taiwan is in a healthier state than feature filmmaking. Would you agree?
CWS: Well I think the most important -- not necessarily healthy -- documentaries are really telling Taiwan's story, so I think Taiwan commercial films and drama films ... Taiwan really doesn't have any commercial films anymore -- some are art films, like Hou Hsiao-hsien or Tsai Ming-liang's films, but the problem is their stuff is shot, it feels like they're shot for western critics. And they enter that realm ... so Taiwanese people don't like watching it because it's not their story. In terms of Taiwan society, it becomes very distant -- like it's not related to them. But on the other hand, with documentary, because the machine is smaller and you can shoot on a lower budget, but because more and more people are shooting documentaries now, there are a lot of students -- or at least there a lot of related majors. So now a lot of people are filming them. And now people are going through all the corners of Taiwan and discovering all different sorts of stories of Taiwan, so it's all real stories because it's documenting.
Some are shot better because the story is more special. Not just Viva Tonal, but Life, by Wu Yi-feng, it was probably the best-selling domestic film at the box office last year. Or even now, with Jump! Boys (Lin Yu-hsien) they tried to train little kids into becoming national gymnastics champions. There's a film called Let It Be about Taiwanese farmers farming -- very good and interesting. Now it's going to be playing in the theater. Now a lot of theaters are willing to screen documentaries; they're willing to put them on the screen because they're discovering there is an audience, and it seems that some reviews are not bad. So it's a very interesting change. I think a big problem is, of course the quality of shooting is not bad, but I think Taiwan people will feel like eh, this has something to do with me. And art films, people just think "I don't understand" or it's stuffy or it's a weird story. Slowly the distance is becoming greater and greater.
I think the younger generation of workers [those in the film industry], they don't have to carry the burden of the Taiwanese new wave like Hou and Tsai, but of course it's a very good tradition because they really brought Taiwan film into another level. But the problem is that in Taiwan there's no audience. Because before they all thought Taiwanese people didn't like to watch movies or have no artistic appreciation. But it's not true because a lot of people still go to see good documentaries, so wherein lies the problem? I think gradually this will all have a symbiotic influence.
APA: What role do you think the Taipei art house Spot plays in promoting Taiwanese cinema?
CWS: I think it's run very well. I think in some ways. Because they put movies, reading and drinking coffee and a pretty garden all together. So it becomes that when you come to a place like this you can stay for a long time. A lot of movie theaters you only go to watch films and then you leave -- so it's a culture. It also has a membership system, which is good because they keep mailing membership materials to them. I discovered that Spot has its audience, and they come not because of Viva Tonal but because Spot gives them this information and then they come watch. I think the only sad thing about Spot is that it's really small, only about 80 seats. Originally with Viva Tonal we thought about going there, but with 80 people, that's not enough. So I think this is the part where it could do better.
But now, not only does Spot play domestic films, they also play a lot of the documentaries, like the ones I just talked about. Theaters in Kauhsiung, Ilan and Tainan are willing to play them, so I think the most important part is that if the movie theaters discover there's an audience they're willing to show these films. So yeah I think right now, these documentaries ... I think Spot has actually become a second-run domestic film theater. But I think it's still good. It would be nice if they could periodically put on some old Taiwanese films but I think it's still a good venue. But like, if a new movie is opening, I think most people won't pick Spot but will hope to that it plays at a different theater.
APA: Now that commercial theaters are willing to play Taiwanese documentaries, are there private investors -- as opposed to the government or public television -- for future projects?
CWS: Yeah, I think gradually a lot of other foundations are willing to, but right now it looks like there's not this kind of tradition. Unlike in America, where it seems like a lot of foundations are willing to sponsor movies. In Taiwan, in the past, there were all different kinds of cultural foundations, but they like to sponsor programs more like music and dance -- very safe programs. Because you don't know if a film will criticize something -- they feel like it's less safe. So now, I think this chance is bigger. But it hasn't become like, in America, where it's automatic. So for a project here, you still have to work hard to fundraise and convince people.
APA: Thanks for your time.
CWS: Thank you.