John Torres made a splash at this year's VC Film Festival with his experimental feature Todo Todo Teros.
Click here for APA's review of the film.
Interview with John Torres
Sunday, May 6, 2007
VC Film Festival, Los Angeles
Asia Pacific Arts: Is this Todo Todo Teros's first official film screening here in Los Angeles?
John Torres: It's a US premiere. But in North America it was screened in Canada, in Vancouver [International Film Festival 2006, where it won the Dragons & Tigers Award].
APA: How does it feel for you to screen at VC?
JT: Even just having mostly a Filipino audience [at the screening], I think it's really, really good for me, especially in that they're living here, outside the country. It's a big chance for me to tell them how things are going in the country, even if it's just on the surface a love story. It talks about a lot of things political, economic, social. And there was also a mix of other foreigners [at the screening]. It's a good thing. I think this is my first chance to screen it outside the country with mostly a Philippine audience. […] I think this was 90% Filipino, which is very nice.
APA: Before I ask you questions about the film itself, you talked a little bit about the title on Saturday. I was really intrigued by terorista + Eros = teros. Midway into the film, I got this impression that you're addressing the whole idea of political commitment, which is usually contrasted with romantic commitment. You juxtapose the Berlin footage with the Manila footage so well; I begin to see what you're trying to get at in terms of being a terorista to the ones you love. But could you elaborate more on that? How did you come about that idea?
JT: I was intrigued by how, when you're in a relationship, there are a lot of expectations. You build your dreams together. You build the landscape you share with a person. And I was intrigued by how you somehow destroy those dreams and plant bombs within, so that it implodes, and you see the effect of this in your significant other. And it was just the perfect time because at that time, I was in a relationship. I was being drawn [to] an outsider, and I believed that I was really committed to this person. But then I saw how I acted behind the camera. As you see, as you could hear, my voice was being very intimate with the subject, with the person in front of the camera. Terorismo and Eros, terrorism and love: how you become a terrorist with the people you love.
APA: When you said that you realized how you were behaving with your "subject," the fact that the camera was in front of you, kind of shielding you, allowed you to be more intimate. You really set up this strange, interesting relationship between the visual media, the camera.
JT: I think it's a mix of that. There's somehow a boundary, and the way I shot the video, I wasn't looking directly at her eyes all the time; I was looking at the viewfinder, through the lens. I think there was some distance -- a wall, maybe. But then, on the other hand, I was thinking, at that time, I didn't really think that I would be showing this to other people. I knew that this was an intimate scene, but only I could see it. Only I knew what was happening. So, um, I don't know, it's a mix of being conscious that this can be portrayed as fiction. At the same time, this is something very real.
APA: So none of that was staged at all?
JT: None, no. It was something, yeah. [laughs]
APA: Is that where the film began? Or you weren't even conscious that a film was beginning?
JT: Just like with my other films, I didn't know where it began. It was just a very, very soft transition. It just felt so natural. And it was all natural, of course; I didn't even block her. The only thing that required planning was just the composition -- how I composed the scenes. But also that came naturally. It was automatic. That's what I meant. It was not a conscious effort of mine to put us in a well-lit scene, and...
APA: You mean, it was just instinct?
JT: Yeah, yeah, instinct. It was very much a gut feeling -- instinct -- as far as composition goes.
APA: Did that kind of automatic-ness come also from the fact that you're working with DV? You mentioned also on Saturday that you wouldn't have been able to do half as much if it had been on film.
JT: Yes. Definitely. If I were holding a 35mm film, it would've been definitely hard to go on naturally. And I think the subject also. Me having a camera, it didn't really bother her so much because I was there as a tourist. I had a camera, being touristy and all -- just pointing everywhere. But she knew also that I was shooting her. At first she didn't know. Well, eventually, I just asked for her permission to show it. That was the first thing that I asked for. But I could make something out of this. Of course, you value the privacy of the person.
APA: And when did the footage and the situations in Manila start to take form?
JT: Immediately after I went back home. Maybe a day or a week after, I knew that I had something. I think the first three days back in Manila, I was just too excited to see the film and see what I shot. I think I digitized in my computer and just edited promptly a scene or two. And so I went back to work. It was a lifestyle -- a way of life for me that I always had a camera, going out and just shooting a lot of strangers, observing. And even when I was young, I was trained to be an observer just because I am also very, very shy. I didn't talk to people, especially when I was young. I was too shy, too reserved. So I was just looking from a distance, looking at people. But this time, I just had the camera record all this stuff -- the ordinary things that went on.
APA: I also found interesting how you juxtapozed word and image. After a certain point, there are so many subjectivities going on. You have the citations, the guy behind the camera filming Olga; you have Leonardo, and the girl who's engaging with the image of Olga. Was this also a way to explore ways of representing subjectivity? Beginning with yours?
JT: I think it also came naturally. Of course, um... I don't know. It just felt natural that I would type something on the screen and just integrate even what I have, SMS, and the narration, of course. Everything that you said all came just naturally without me really thinking. But, of course, even with how we live; in Manila, we get bombarded by what we see, what we read -- especially SMS. As you know, we're the texting capital. [laughs] Of course, it also added that the context where I was in, we were very, very afraid of someone hearing our conversation, even just outside, inside, [due at the time to the] wire-tapping scandal in the government, everything. It was never really a conscious effort of mine.
APA: What was the timespan, from the Berlin footage to having a final cut?
JT: Maybe eight months, I think, or nine months. But it entailed a lot of waiting, not knowing what to do or where to go. It entailed a lot of just staring at the screen, at the computer, just thinking and thinking and thinking "What am I doing?" I knew that I was handling something that was much, much more than what I intended: a simple love story. And it also helped that I showed the rough cut of the film to other friends just to have their take on what they also see in what I was trying to see, and it was very, very nice to brainstorm with them along the way. That's why, if you see the credits, it's not only me. But mostly me. [laughs] Like handling the camera, you know. It was me, but with other friends, so I relied also on the wealth of experience and wealth of insight that they offer.
APA: You mentioned also on Saturday that this is a kind of personal statement from you, but also political, against the local mainstream Philippine filmmaking. Could you talk a little bit about the conditions of Philippine independent/digital filmmaking?
JT: In 2004 or 2005, 40% of [the] output of films in the Philippines was digital. And that's a very big statement. Mainstream cinema's not doing as well now. Independent filmmakers gather around, they network, and they hang out with each other. One director becomes a cinematographer for another project, becomes an editor for another, and a soundman. Even a PA. We don't have that hierarchy because we're still very, very close to the ground, very close to our roots. We don't have any qualms. We brainstorm with each other. We offer our talents. This director is a musician also, one is a dancer, and s/he becomes my actor. It's very bayanihan, you know, and that's cultural sharing, bayanihan -- sharing one vision. Although we disagree somehow -- we have different aesthetics, different sensibilities -- we support each other. I'd like to think that I am really an outsider because I didn't come from the UP [University of the Philippines] film school, I didn't come from Mowelfund [Film Institute, in Quezon City], I was not a part of any film group or filming group. In the Philippines, you go as far as who you know. I think other independent filmmakers are encouraged to know that you can easily just break into the scene and make your own film without any hindrances that you can encounter within the mainstream system. And also, which is encouraging, there was this owner of a mall chain in the Philippines. They offered one cinema as a venue for us to screen. And it's important that they let us decide the films to be shown for one year without [considering] realistic expectations, or just having enough to make it sustainable.
APA: That's unprecedented, isn't it?
JT: It is. Of course, we are aware of that and so we're really trying to make good on this. What we've encountered so far is that we have the venue, but I think another challenge is getting it out to the people, offering it to them, making them used to this kind of cinema because these [films] are really, as far as aesthetics go, counter to what they see in the mainstream. And it's very hard to sell and very hard for them to stay in the cinema [theatre] after 30 minutes, or after 20 minutes, of [Raya Martin's A Short Film about the] Indio nacional, which is just one slow scene, but a very poignant scene. They sometimes, of course, are too impatient to stay, and they won't get the point, and that's very sad. Of course, Lav Diaz has an 11-hour film [Evolution of a Filipino Family]; how can you make them stay? But what's interesting is that Lav is also thinking outside of the box. He goes to the communities in the rural areas, where they have the same rhythm as his film -- very slow, very contemplative. And he finds his audience, and he screens his films there. And it works. I think it's extreme for now because no one dares. You go to their farms and just set up one screening there. Who does that? I am exploring distributing through pirates. I am actually writing something for Benjamin McKay about it. I think it's for a compilation on Southeast Asian something, cinema journal or what, I don't know. So I'm writing. Actually, I'm way past the deadline! That's what I'm working on, really working with these people [pirates].
APA: And the financing of films in the Philippines?
JT: Financing in the Philippines…wow.
APA: Let's start with your film. You said that it was self-financed.
JT: It was low-budget. I didn't really need a lot. To tell you the truth, I just spent like 5000 pesos -- that's just $100 -- for the raw stuff. And because I didn't have any actors, I didn't hire any cinematographers for this. I edited and shot myself. I was kind of nervous actually, in the end, because I made a film, but I didn't spend a lot. So what's...
APA: So you had that doubt whether it qualified as a film or not?
JT: Yeah, is this really a film? [laughs] No, no. But you have that feeling. We find a way. We ask for the talents and skills of the people around us. It was also a challenge to ask for permission from the people who appeared in the film because, of course, some of them are actresses from the mainstream. Of course, you have to ask for their permission. Even the music that you use. But to answer your question, for other people, there are contests. There's Cinemalaya film festival. You have 10 finalists and you're given 5-600,000 pesos. There's Cinema One, which this year is one million pesos. At the end of each contest, you have a screening for, I think, one week, for 10 finalists, so I think you have 2 or 3 screenings for the duration of the festival. But after that, for one festival, they have the rights to the film; and for the other festival, you have the rights. But then, another avenue is, of course, asking for a grant from the government, which is hell. You really have to wait for your turn, and pray that they give you money. I am a recipient of the grant. Of course, it's helpful, but I really had to wait for one year for their decision because of the budget. I also had to present before the panel because. And a lot more stuff. A minority [of filmmakers] is rich enough to finance their projects for a million pesos. They ask other private institutions, maybe corporate clients, and so you see in some films, you have [product] placements. They go to a café, they focus on the logo, you know...just to make their film.
APA: Do you see government assistance improving?
JT: I hope so. They actually give out a substantial amount, but it's so sad that it's not given enough. I am working on my second film. The Rotterdam festival, through the Hubert Bals fund, gave me a substantial amount, and that also helped me. Aside from that and the grant from the NCCA [National Commission for Culture in the Arts] from the government, I was fortunate to get some prize money from one festival, and so that also helped me sustain. I think there are a lot of us who are full-time in this, and that means we don't have any other sources of income. We pay the rent every month; it's not only film, it's other bills that you pay.
APA: So prior to Todo Todo Teros, you'd just been making short films?
JT: Four short films, yes.
APA: What made you jump from the short film format to the feature-length? Did you feel that it was just time?
JT: I think making the short films, I wanted to explore the medium. I wanted to know if I actually could string a few scenes together. Storytelling for 12 minutes. I think that also affirmed my ability a bit to tell something very small in a short time and just explore the possibility of having something longer, telling a story with a much wider scale somehow.
APA: Do you still hope to make short films, or do you think you're "done" with that format?
JT: Whenever I shoot, I don't decide there that I'm making a short film or a feature-length film, or even an experimental film, or a traditional, classical film. I just shoot and shoot. Sometimes, some scenes just work together for this period of time, for this length of time. I am open, I suppose.
APA: Getting back to Todo Todo Teros, it's kind of amazing, based on your description, that the different layers came about so naturally. Is it because it is so personal?
JT: It's amazing because I also look at filmmaking as very spiritual, and that just means that I am still doing it without really knowing where I'm headed, and that also entails being open to possibilities, being open to collaboration, being open to accidents or coincidences, if you will. And also a symphony of grace, a conspiracy of grace from above, help from above, knowing that you don't have the formula or the answer to everything, but being open to answers from the unknown.
APA: You said the film's [production] lifespan was eight months. It seemed to cover a longer period, almost a lifetime, because you were also bringing in the historical context of the Philippines with the travel advisories, the state of how the Philippines were seen from the outside. I thought that was really great.
JT: Thank you. That was what I was emphasizing last time -- that you keep a journal of your thoughts, of your reflections, of how you view the world. It's very important to have a critical mind everyday. I think I was just expressing what I had in mind, what I still have in mind, for how many years already. It started way, way before I even made this film.
APA: When you approach a project, do you have a word, a situation or an image? Which comes first, or is it all kind of mixed?
JT: Kind of mixed, but of course. The act of shooting and just looking at the images comes first before you're actually writing lines. And then just having a concept in mind, not actually writing, but knowing that I'm headed somewhere, to uncertain deduction. Actually the voiceover, the narration, I didn't write anything. I just turned on the camera. And how I did it, I was just, um... I knew I wanted to relax, I didn't want to sound very stiff and preachy-preachy. That was the last thing I wanted. And so what I did, I just had my camera with me one evening. I just laid down on the bed and had the camera here on top of my chest, with the mike very close to my mouth so that I didn't have to project. It was a very intimate process. It was really very much like a journal of my thoughts. I also had the confidence, the knowledge that I had something to say. So I felt that I didn't really need to write things down at that moment. It was just a matter of rearranging some stuff together.
APA: [Along with] the group of digital/independent filmmakers in Manila, do you also practice criticism or do you look at your films as criticism?
JT: I think that's a good point. What's lacking now in the independent scene, even in film schools in the Philippines, is criticism, or good critics.
APA: But there's Alexis [Tioseco, editor of Criticine] and Noel Vera [www.criticafterdark.blogspot.com].
JT: And..
APA: And..
JT: Exactly. Just the two people I consider [as critics]. Aside from that, there's one friend of mine who, unfortunately, isn't in Manila now. He's a brother. I think he's in a seminary, so that doesn't count. But aside from the two of them, it's very hard. Because in the Philippines, it's just still so much star power and celebrity -- just trying to sell to the masses -- so what they write are "love teams" and split-ups, there's not much. But the fact is, right now there [are] no good writers or good critics for films.
APA: Or even [Philippine] film history. [There's] Nick Deocampo…
JT: And Rolando Tolentino.
APA: So none of the filmmakers are actually engaged in [criticism]?
JT: Well, Raya Martin is putting up a website that's more into that now. We've been talking about it as a small group of filmmaker friends: Khavn de la Cruz, Raya Martin, and I. We encourage each other to. I think in the future it's not far-fetched that we write about films also, not about our films, but other people's films. But I'm not if sure other people, other filmmakers, are also into that. I hope so. I think there was a publication put up in Manila, closely related with the state university. Yeah, yeah, I think in the 1970s there was also a series of publications. I'd like to think there's a tradition of good film criticism in the Philippines.