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good afternoon everyone

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my name is michael berry i'm the

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director of the center for chinese

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studies at ucla

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and it's my great pleasure to invite

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everyone to today's lecture

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which will feature tina lou from yale

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university

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uh here at the center for chinese

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studies normally our programming

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is during the academic year and even

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though it's summer

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since we're all in quarantine we're all

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hunkered down at home we thought we

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would try to continue some programming

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over the summer

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as a way to maintain community and bring

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people together

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moving forward we're going to be

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continuing with a variety of events

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including teach-ins artists talks

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scholarly talks

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and i think it's really important we do

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our best to try to bring people together

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during these very difficult times in

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whatever way we can

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as part of that uh at the end of the

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talk today

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i thought after i hit the record button

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and we turn off the recording

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for those who are interested since i see

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we have a lot of specialists from

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chinese studies from all around the

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country maybe even the world here

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be nice to just have a virtual hang

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session and so

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i'll just leave the zoom open a little

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bit so those people who want to

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reconnect

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and socialize can do so and so

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after the talk if you are not pressed

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for time feel free to hang around a

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little bit to speak with

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speaker and other guests but without

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further ado i want to introduce my

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colleague professor

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wu from ucla who is a specialist in late

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imperial chinese literature

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and she will be introducing our speaker

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today

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okay thank you michael and i can see

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that actually we have a larger audience

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than we normally have

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when we hold these talks at on site

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so it's kind of it's a very exciting

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occasion for me

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because i've been self-escalating for

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five months and now i'm

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kind of lying for some intellectual

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conversation and academic community

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and i feel everybody is feeling the same

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so

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um since we have a big

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international audience i think uh i i

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think

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tina used to i would do a proper

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introduction still

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um so hello everybody uh welcome to this

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room talk

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hosted by the center for chinese studies

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at ucla

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and so today our speaker is tina lu uh

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briefly

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now is colonel john tremble a professor

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of east asian languages and literatures

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at jail

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her research focuses on literature of

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the late imperial

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peer relating to china and she is author

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of numerous publications

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the major ones include persons

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roles and minds and

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also accidental

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incest video cannibalism and other

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peculiar encounters in late imperial

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chinese literature

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and also a chapter in the cambridge

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history of chinese literature

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and the co-edited volume approaches to

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teaching the story of the stone

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i should also note that her new book

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entitled

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the coin and the sievert head ownership

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and fungibility

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in 17th century china is forthcoming uh

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from a harvard east asia

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center uh the other projects

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professor lou is working on include a

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collaborative project

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on the 17th century playwright and

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painter's uae

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and also she's working on a major

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digital project called the tencent rules

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which is a collaborative

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platform for people to share

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primary sources and annotations and

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commentaries

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so today and without much ado

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uh i shall introduce the topic of tina's

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talk today and she's uh

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the topic is john that and the

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aesthetics of slavery

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so let's welcome tina thank you so much

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um so thank you michael thank you enjoy

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thank you esther

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um thank you for making this happen and

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at such short notice

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um i was born when my parents were

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students at ucla so i always think of

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ucla

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as like my fundamental home institution

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um i also just want to apologize

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in advance first for grotesque errors

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that will be

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memorialized forever um because

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because of my own failings and also

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because like all of you i've been

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without a library for five months

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but also my apologies for any hiccups

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with zoom because i'm also still a

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relative newbie

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so for years i've been working on this

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book on the thing

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in the 17th century and how different

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genres make arguments about what can be

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owned and what can't

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about fungibility and about value

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and um i was planning on writing a

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conclusion

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in the spring of 2020 and you know

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things look very different

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now than they did six months ago so what

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you're about to hear

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is a synologist version of the

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reevaluation

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and introspection that's been taking

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place all around us

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i'm very much workshopping these ideas

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and i so appreciate

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any help that you can offer so please

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feel free to

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talk to me after the talk or to email me

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so my manuscript as a whole um

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engages with karl marx's idea of

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commodity fetishism

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so namely that focusing attention

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on things is a way to hide the social

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relations

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that produce those things um

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so the phantasmagorical that he's

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talking about here

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refers to a kind of performance that

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used magic lanterns to produce

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to project fantastic images

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that 18th century european viewers

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thought were real

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now famously walter benjamin

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assigned even more power to the

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phantasmagoria

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arguing that the entire culture of

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commodity producing society could be

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seen in its whole as this elaborate

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illusion this phantasmagoria and in fact

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after chapters on ownership

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my manuscript does take on the pervasive

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17th century interest in surfaces and

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optical illusions

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so today i am talking about tawamangi

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a collection of essays by the 17th

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century writer john dae who was born

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into a wealthy shaoxing family

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these essays are reminiscences of his

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life under the ming dynasty

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before the conquest of the qing upended

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his life

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and their stylistic flair and

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gorgeousness

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have dazzled critics and leaders for

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generations

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but i want to argue that that same

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stylistic flair really demands

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consideration as a social position

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and that the engagement with the object

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world is deeply political

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so i should say that my husband read an

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earlier version of this talk

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and said nicely isn't this kind of

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obvious um and so like in some ways what

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i'm talking about today is how

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this is obvious that aestheticism of

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course

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is classism um but why couldn't i see

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this for the last 30 years

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um the short answer is that our fields

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and when i say our field i mean in the

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chinese speaking world

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and outside of it relentlessly

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identifies

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with the interests of the ruling class

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with

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slave owners rather than enslaved people

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and in fact i would say that the most

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difficult aspect

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of my engagement with 17th century texts

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has always been

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how do you take as seriously as possible

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their experience of the world

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without accepting it and in fact the way

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in which

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jondae treats a triangle of

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relationships

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the thing the self the social world

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brings into focus a whole range of

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things about 17th century society that

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modern readers don't find particularly

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palatable

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acceptance of social rank and hierarchy

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and also of course

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transacting people to perform sexual and

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other forms of labor

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now among other things this book

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is a snapshot of a social world but it

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is one to which

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we modern readers have a small and

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necessary claim

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he appeals to us because we are presumed

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to share the same aesthetic values

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as he does now in fact

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identifying with jandai's aesthetics

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lies behind much of the modern

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scholarship on john day that celebrates

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the writing

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and its evocation of a rich sensory

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world

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it's almost as if the book makes a

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proposition

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that through its descriptions of what

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was heard

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tasted and above all seen it will allow

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reader to step into jandai's shoes to

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experience

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what he did so dundai asks us to

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accept a phenomenological understanding

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of memory

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that memory is sense that dream

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and memory are synonymous

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in other words he's really presenting an

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invitation to a social interaction

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in literary settings we call this kind

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of invitation

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genre here's carolyn miller's definition

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of what genre does

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now miller's version of genre replaces

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traditional sinological understanding of

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genre that categorizes texts

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according to their languages their

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themes

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and their histories of textual

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transmission

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and instead she proposes that any text

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can be seen

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as a social compact that resolves a

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social problem

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and what is that social problem in the

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case

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these essays chande proposes to us

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are transparent reminiscences

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now it's a sign of our acceptance

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of that proposal that chandai is

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routinely classified as a mean writer

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even though his life was cut in two by

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the dynastic fall

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and the writing for which he's known was

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produced decades

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into the qing dynasty now this fact

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is not merely a matter of dating

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because we're being asked to maintain

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two contradictory positions

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on the one hand he asks us to agree that

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the memories are

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00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,200

records of sensation and on the other

292

00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,320

hand

293

00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:23,120

he can only describe this lifestyle of

294

00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:25,279

wealth and splendor under the cover of

295

00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,880

regrets for the past so you all know

296

00:11:25,279 --> 00:11:28,959

there's a famous preface

297

00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:31,279

that is all about how much he regrets

298

00:11:28,959 --> 00:11:34,480

all the enjoyments of the past

299

00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:37,519

so the text that once occupies a space

300

00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:39,920

of immediate presence and absence

301

00:11:37,519 --> 00:11:41,440

and the reasons we accept this proposal

302

00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,839

have everything to do

303

00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,040

with the taboos and imperatives

304

00:11:43,839 --> 00:11:47,360

imperatives

305

00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,320

of elite culture that dictate what a

306

00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,800

person can say

307

00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:52,959

and what they can't say so let's just

308

00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:56,399

recognize that we're in the terrain of

309

00:11:52,959 --> 00:11:58,399

manners when we're reading

310

00:11:56,399 --> 00:12:00,720

so let's look a little bit at this

311

00:11:58,399 --> 00:12:03,200

invitation

312

00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:04,240

this is what we agreed to when we accept

313

00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,639

it

314

00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,079

so john day writes about a famous

315

00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:11,839

nanding prostitute

316

00:12:08,079 --> 00:12:14,800

one year sin and he combines

317

00:12:11,839 --> 00:12:15,760

a stylized description of this young

318

00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,720

woman

319

00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:20,000

with a narrative in which she slights a

320

00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,639

customer

321

00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,880

now to borrow miller's question what

322

00:12:22,639 --> 00:12:26,800

social action is achieved by this

323

00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:29,360

aesthetic

324

00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:30,959

partly what is achieved is the silencing

325

00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:34,000

of whole spheres

326

00:12:30,959 --> 00:12:38,000

and the interiority of your sin

327

00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:40,800

so other texts close to this one in

328

00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,920

time approach elite courtesans very

329

00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:44,639

differently

330

00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,880

so this is a vernacular story very

331

00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:49,200

famous i'm sure all of you have read it

332

00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,839

in which the oil seller falls in love

333

00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:54,399

with the courtesan minyang

334

00:12:51,839 --> 00:12:55,360

is like christian in that she also is

335

00:12:54,399 --> 00:12:58,720

talented

336

00:12:55,360 --> 00:13:01,920

in all sorts of elite arts and she too

337

00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:03,120

is forced to consort with men she can't

338

00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,800

stand

339

00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,320

but here the reader gets a very

340

00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,040

different picture so

341

00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,160

a rich young man bhagonza who's a lot

342

00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:13,839

like the gonza

343

00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:17,519

in the ignition anecdote um

344

00:13:13,839 --> 00:13:21,040

tries to gain mignon's favor she refuses

345

00:13:17,519 --> 00:13:24,079

he and his goons drag her onto his boat

346

00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:26,800

and then humiliate her

347

00:13:24,079 --> 00:13:28,800

now nothing that happens to mania would

348

00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,480

have been regarded as a crime by late

349

00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,600

imperial courts

350

00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:35,200

nonetheless the details force us to

351

00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,399

sympathize with her

352

00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,959

and not to the rapist now in many

353

00:13:38,399 --> 00:13:40,959

respects

354

00:13:41,199 --> 00:13:46,839

hold on this is where you're gonna see

355

00:13:43,199 --> 00:13:49,519

that i'm a newbie with the whole like

356

00:13:46,839 --> 00:13:52,399

routine okay

357

00:13:49,519 --> 00:13:54,160

um now in many respects this difference

358

00:13:52,399 --> 00:13:56,720

between the vernacular story

359

00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,160

and the classical essay shows us a

360

00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:00,639

negative outline

361

00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,600

what the classical essay regards is

362

00:14:00,639 --> 00:14:04,959

unseemly

363

00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:08,560

what you shouldn't say that is

364

00:14:04,959 --> 00:14:11,920

also its ongoing power

365

00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,680

now jamison tells us that genres are

366

00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,839

literary

367

00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:17,839

institutions whose function is to

368

00:14:15,839 --> 00:14:21,360

specify the proper use

369

00:14:17,839 --> 00:14:24,000

of a particular cultural artifact

370

00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:25,199

these two texts are different social

371

00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,880

gatherings

372

00:14:25,199 --> 00:14:28,399

admitting different kinds of

373

00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:32,000

interactions

374

00:14:28,399 --> 00:14:35,360

so we are meant to read

375

00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:37,519

here we go we are meant to read

376

00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,199

shandai's description of wangensen and

377

00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:42,000

admire both her beauty

378

00:14:39,199 --> 00:14:44,320

and her ability to retain purity while

379

00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,880

working as a sex worker

380

00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:48,240

we are not meant to read this and ask

381

00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:51,120

whether the man who has

382

00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:53,199

paid for your sins two weeks she slept

383

00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:56,560

and ate with him for half a month

384

00:14:53,199 --> 00:14:57,760

is also raping her how frequently was he

385

00:14:56,560 --> 00:15:00,639

raping her

386

00:14:57,760 --> 00:15:01,920

did she fight the way that mignon did

387

00:15:00,639 --> 00:15:03,760

who earns the money

388

00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:05,199

that the rich young man paid to wait

389

00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:08,399

person

390

00:15:05,199 --> 00:15:10,720

such questions violate the social norms

391

00:15:08,399 --> 00:15:12,480

which ground this literary act

392

00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,639

so i just want you to see that these

393

00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:17,279

norms are not neutral

394

00:15:14,639 --> 00:15:18,639

they withhold flesh and agency from

395

00:15:17,279 --> 00:15:21,120

wangersen

396

00:15:18,639 --> 00:15:22,800

and in return for being admitted to

397

00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:26,320

jandai circle

398

00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:29,440

for his treating us as a fellow wealthy

399

00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:32,480

male elite of refinement and taste

400

00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:34,240

we agree to be silent on the realm of

401

00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:37,920

the material and the bodily

402

00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:40,959

except for that of sight now even across

403

00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:44,240

three and a half centuries i feel two

404

00:15:40,959 --> 00:15:46,959

conflicting things about this

405

00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:49,279

so first of all it makes me a little

406

00:15:46,959 --> 00:15:50,959

uncomfortably complicit in the rape of

407

00:15:49,279 --> 00:15:54,160

longitude

408

00:15:50,959 --> 00:15:56,639

and second of all in pointing that out

409

00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:59,040

i feel like a rude american woman

410

00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:00,639

overstepping herself in a party

411

00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:03,440

that i should be lucky to have been

412

00:16:00,639 --> 00:16:05,600

invited to in the first place

413

00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:07,759

but i think the kind of key thing here

414

00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:10,800

is i want you to see

415

00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:12,000

that jandai needs us to make this essay

416

00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:14,480

work

417

00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:17,279

when he writes with admiration about her

418

00:16:14,480 --> 00:16:20,160

refusal to speak to her purchaser

419

00:16:17,279 --> 00:16:21,040

john day transforms this exchange into

420

00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,560

something that he

421

00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:27,279

needs us to agree is beautiful

422

00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:28,079

in other words the reader's consent and

423

00:16:27,279 --> 00:16:30,639

approval

424

00:16:28,079 --> 00:16:34,000

is necessary and you might even say it

425

00:16:30,639 --> 00:16:36,399

stands in for your sense herself

426

00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,759

i think you probably also have noticed

427

00:16:36,399 --> 00:16:42,240

that jandai himself

428

00:16:37,759 --> 00:16:45,440

is hiding and someone might ask

429

00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:48,160

what was jande's own place in her life

430

00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:50,000

how has he come to know her so well was

431

00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:53,120

he one of her lovers

432

00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:56,639

did he also rape her

433

00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:59,759

these essays collectively are

434

00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:02,720

both about the transformation

435

00:16:59,759 --> 00:17:04,640

of social and economic power into

436

00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,799

something pleasurable

437

00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,679

because everything wonderful that can be

438

00:17:06,799 --> 00:17:10,640

bought

439

00:17:07,679 --> 00:17:11,520

makes its appearance in their pages but

440

00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:15,199

these essays

441

00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:18,400

also stand in for that transformation

442

00:17:15,199 --> 00:17:20,160

i'm gonna stop sharing for one moment so

443

00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,559

you can see my face

444

00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,520

um to turn money into something

445

00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:26,880

beautiful

446

00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,079

a 17th century man could buy art or eat

447

00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,200

something delicious

448

00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:33,919

or put on a play or he could write

449

00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:35,840

about the purchase of art or food or the

450

00:17:33,919 --> 00:17:37,360

putting on of a play

451

00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,200

and what i'm going to be talking about

452

00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:41,120

today is something that the essays

453

00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:44,720

cannot help but reveal

454

00:17:41,120 --> 00:17:48,240

which is that many and maybe all

455

00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:51,200

17th century pleasures including writing

456

00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:51,600

involved control over other people some

457

00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,760

of them

458

00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:56,880

impossible to enjoy outside of the

459

00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,600

framework of owning another human being

460

00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:02,240

and that there is no way for a reader

461

00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:05,280

even three and a half centuries later

462

00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:08,240

to separate cleanly the aesthetic

463

00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:10,559

what makes these essays beautiful from

464

00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:12,720

john day's absolute control over human

465

00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:15,039

beings purchased for his pleasure

466

00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,080

the aesthetic itself hinges on that

467

00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:18,000

control

468

00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:19,200

so i'm not going to be talking about the

469

00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:22,000

ways in which

470

00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:22,880

synologists all over the world continue

471

00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:26,400

to abet

472

00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:29,919

that social world but they do and

473

00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:32,799

maybe we can talk about that afterwards

474

00:18:29,919 --> 00:18:33,440

okay i'm going back to screen share hold

475

00:18:32,799 --> 00:18:36,559

on

476

00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,559

am i in screen share

477

00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:46,480

not yet okay hold on

478

00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:48,960

hmm i should not have done that

479

00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,960

hold on

480

00:18:51,679 --> 00:18:57,840

okay hold on

481

00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,200

see i'm not i'm not good enough at this

482

00:19:03,360 --> 00:19:07,760

yeah to like try to do anything fancy

483

00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:10,960

hold on

484

00:19:07,760 --> 00:19:14,240

am i in screen chair now yes

485

00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,240

great okay

486

00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:24,640

okay sorry about that

487

00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:26,240

um now one of the things that you notice

488

00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,840

when you read these essays

489

00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:33,840

is that gender um is particularly

490

00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:36,720

drawn to lavish tableau

491

00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:37,520

so here are two of them that admire

492

00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:41,760

spectacle

493

00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,760

that upends normal perception

494

00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,520

special effects can also be found on a

495

00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,919

small scale

496

00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:50,880

as in this party in sea of

497

00:19:47,919 --> 00:19:53,440

chrysanthemums

498

00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,240

agenda describes a carefully manicured

499

00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:57,440

garden

500

00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,679

with flowers grown at different tiers

501

00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,679

and the scene culminates in the

502

00:19:59,679 --> 00:20:04,000

stagecrafted party with

503

00:20:01,679 --> 00:20:06,480

representations and chrysanthemums no

504

00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:09,520

longer distinguished at all

505

00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,640

our point i think was to overwhelm the

506

00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:14,400

senses

507

00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:17,039

so that the reader the viewer

508

00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:19,280

was rendered incapable of distinguishing

509

00:20:17,039 --> 00:20:21,120

layers of representation and you can see

510

00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,480

that this is recapitulated in the

511

00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:25,919

classical chinese

512

00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:26,720

itself now this is how jaundi accounts

513

00:20:25,919 --> 00:20:29,760

for this

514

00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:33,760

spectacular effect

515

00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:34,799

now i suspect that if i had been at this

516

00:20:33,760 --> 00:20:38,000

party

517

00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:38,960

i would probably have accounted for this

518

00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:42,400

effect

519

00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:46,000

by gardeners um and gender's

520

00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:48,320

tripartite explanation used to certain

521

00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,880

rhetorical imperatives

522

00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:52,000

he is the aesthete who leaves room for

523

00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:54,080

mystery and art

524

00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,360

but in so doing he also draws the

525

00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,400

curtain over

526

00:20:55,360 --> 00:21:00,720

labor so here is another version of the

527

00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,440

same effect

528

00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,240

so he describes this wonderful crab

529

00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,400

party

530

00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:07,840

with a parade of side dishes that

531

00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:11,120

accompany the crab

532

00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:12,480

um duck confit cow's milk yogurt wine

533

00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:15,440

soaked clams

534

00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:17,440

cabbage cooked in duck fat tangerines

535

00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:20,799

chestnuts cow drops

536

00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,919

um freshly harvested rice and of course

537

00:21:20,799 --> 00:21:25,840

his own famous

538

00:21:21,919 --> 00:21:28,960

no orchid tea and he summarizes the meal

539

00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:31,120

this way now

540

00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:34,080

i again would argue that there's nothing

541

00:21:31,120 --> 00:21:36,960

particularly defined about these foods

542

00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,320

only the labor involved in boiling crabs

543

00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,760

ala minutes

544

00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:44,799

and for the rest cost and labor

545

00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,799

and one wonders how many people's labor

546

00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:48,159

is erased and turned into something

547

00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:51,520

effortless and

548

00:21:48,159 --> 00:21:54,240

magical here a banquet for the gods

549

00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,480

this is part of a larger pattern an

550

00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,760

aficionado like jaundice finds himself

551

00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,840

in an odd position

552

00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:00,799

in writing about the labor involved in

553

00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:03,280

producing

554

00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:05,200

these overwhelming effects and it's

555

00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:08,240

crystallizing modifiers

556

00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:12,159

like divine and ghostly can

557

00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:14,880

and so even if laborers

558

00:22:12,159 --> 00:22:16,080

are erased their presence demands to be

559

00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,039

accounted for

560

00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,480

whether as in heavenly kitchen or the

561

00:22:19,039 --> 00:22:24,559

power of terrar

562

00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,559

so here is another example

563

00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:30,240

um so uh once again

564

00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:33,200

this essay suggests the complicated

565

00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:36,640

position that gender assigns to labor

566

00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:39,760

um now on the one hand

567

00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,720

the goal of all of these crafts and the

568

00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,880

essays cover

569

00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:45,039

many of them they're an odd bag of

570

00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,480

lanterns and fireworks and stage

571

00:22:45,039 --> 00:22:49,600

productions and

572

00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,880

flower displays and crab dinners is to

573

00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,000

overpower

574

00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:57,679

explanatory mechanism you cannot

575

00:22:54,000 --> 00:23:01,120

tell anymore how this has happened

576

00:22:57,679 --> 00:23:04,080

the viewers are stunned incapable of

577

00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:05,360

understanding what they have seen on the

578

00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,600

other hand

579

00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,559

if privileged knowledge is what makes

580

00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,760

viewers

581

00:23:08,559 --> 00:23:13,280

writers connoisseurs the sum total of

582

00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,400

jandai's expertise

583

00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:19,360

is command in purchase so

584

00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,280

from beginning to end this essay the

585

00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:24,559

lanterns of shemetang

586

00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:25,440

concerns jandai's relationship to all

587

00:23:24,559 --> 00:23:26,960

the labor

588

00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,880

that he has gotten a chance to

589

00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:31,360

commission and command

590

00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,240

now consists partly at least of human

591

00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:35,760

beings

592

00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:39,200

that he and his family have control over

593

00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,679

so his history with lanterns

594

00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,880

is also his history with labor so here

595

00:23:41,679 --> 00:23:46,480

is the beginning

596

00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:48,640

tongtou is um are figures who

597

00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:50,720

recur in these essays they're

598

00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,880

manservants who are elderly who are

599

00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:55,919

probably enslaved

600

00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:58,640

so his first experience with lanterns

601

00:23:55,919 --> 00:23:59,679

takes place literally on the body of a

602

00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,720

bondsman

603

00:23:59,679 --> 00:24:05,600

and the essay continues in like fashion

604

00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,360

after explains that lanterns and

605

00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:10,880

theatrical performances

606

00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:13,919

enhance each other he describes

607

00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,200

the naples ultra of experiences where he

608

00:24:13,919 --> 00:24:19,039

is surrounded by

609

00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:21,039

his lavish lantern collection fireworks

610

00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:23,120

and the performance by his private

611

00:24:21,039 --> 00:24:25,919

acting troop or jaban

612

00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:26,720

whose members are probably owned by his

613

00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:29,360

family

614

00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,960

and sunday here celebrates his own

615

00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:34,720

absolute artistic

616

00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:35,919

control now in between these two moments

617

00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,080

in this essay

618

00:24:35,919 --> 00:24:40,240

he provides an enormous amount of social

619

00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,400

context for his lantern collection

620

00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,840

and how many people were involved in its

621

00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,159

creation

622

00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,159

critics have pointed out how much dande

623

00:24:46,159 --> 00:24:50,720

knows about lanterns

624

00:24:48,159 --> 00:24:52,400

i would argue his knowledge is very

625

00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:55,760

specific

626

00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:56,400

so he knows what someone like shower

627

00:24:55,760 --> 00:25:00,480

dean

628

00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,360

does but not how so this reference to

629

00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:04,559

jingle

630

00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:08,400

again um uh

631

00:25:04,559 --> 00:25:10,880

both praises and obfuscates the labor

632

00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:12,159

it's fundamentally a position to be

633

00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,279

assumed only by

634

00:25:12,159 --> 00:25:17,120

mastery over the laborer so terms like

635

00:25:15,279 --> 00:25:20,159

this denote the distance

636

00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:20,960

precise distance between slave and

637

00:25:20,159 --> 00:25:24,159

master

638

00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:27,039

between command and work

639

00:25:24,159 --> 00:25:30,559

now in this essay probably more than

640

00:25:27,039 --> 00:25:32,799

anywhere else in the collection

641

00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:33,919

the construction of an all-consuming

642

00:25:32,799 --> 00:25:37,039

spectacle

643

00:25:33,919 --> 00:25:39,760

in a social world of workmen and slaves

644

00:25:37,039 --> 00:25:42,320

cannot be disaggregated

645

00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:44,559

similarly the wagnerian opera the

646

00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:46,559

original gazante konsteverk

647

00:25:44,559 --> 00:25:49,200

in gathering together the labor of

648

00:25:46,559 --> 00:25:52,080

hundreds to create a single effect

649

00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:55,200

under the control of a single empresario

650

00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:57,679

has been adored by authoritarian states

651

00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:59,840

so each opera is a way of celebrating

652

00:25:57,679 --> 00:26:02,799

the subjugation of hundreds

653

00:25:59,840 --> 00:26:03,679

orchestra singers set designers lighting

654

00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:07,279

experts

655

00:26:03,679 --> 00:26:10,080

artists to a single mind again

656

00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:11,279

it was all in the arrangement of the

657

00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,559

master

658

00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:18,080

but of course at the same time

659

00:26:14,559 --> 00:26:19,520

the real art remains elusive performed

660

00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:22,480

by someone else

661

00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:25,520

executed by someone else maintained by

662

00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,440

someone else even if no other person

663

00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,080

could have achieved these heights

664

00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,760

the magic always seems liable to retreat

665

00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:36,400

to another layer

666

00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:36,400

to turn into inhuman skill

667

00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,600

i wonder which of these two is the

668

00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:44,799

primary phenomenon

669

00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,919

which the chicken in which the egg one

670

00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:48,480

of the collection's

671

00:26:45,919 --> 00:26:50,960

most celebrated passages concerns the

672

00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,520

light display at the loo fiefdom

673

00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,720

a beautifully articulated version of a

674

00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:58,240

fully immersive

675

00:26:54,720 --> 00:27:00,000

aesthetic experience now perhaps the

676

00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:04,000

effect that he seeks

677

00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:06,080

of sensation that overpowers all context

678

00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,159

that emerges out of the fundamental

679

00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,840

condition of master

680

00:27:08,159 --> 00:27:12,400

of someone whose distance from the

681

00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,720

illusion and consequent enjoyment

682

00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,880

is precisely that which marks the

683

00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:20,399

distinction and status

684

00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:23,919

so he is watching while

685

00:27:20,399 --> 00:27:27,360

they work watching

686

00:27:23,919 --> 00:27:31,440

the what in the absence of the how

687

00:27:27,360 --> 00:27:34,240

is the defining experience of the master

688

00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:35,520

so does the supreme ideal of art as

689

00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,559

stunning

690

00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:41,919

as defying context

691

00:27:38,559 --> 00:27:43,919

whoops as defined context arise fully

692

00:27:41,919 --> 00:27:46,840

from its production by servants

693

00:27:43,919 --> 00:27:48,720

and slaves whose labor cannot be fully

694

00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:51,279

seen certainly from

695

00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:53,279

our distance we cannot approach the

696

00:27:51,279 --> 00:27:54,320

aesthetic separately from its means of

697

00:27:53,279 --> 00:27:57,520

production

698

00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:58,960

they are the same so john day's

699

00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,760

circumstances

700

00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:03,600

as esthy and owner where the two are

701

00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:07,360

inseparable

702

00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:09,840

are foundational to his subjectivity

703

00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:11,360

hegel famously considered how a master

704

00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,919

and a slave

705

00:28:11,360 --> 00:28:14,799

might define themselves against each

706

00:28:13,919 --> 00:28:17,360

other

707

00:28:14,799 --> 00:28:19,600

scholars still debate whether the master

708

00:28:17,360 --> 00:28:24,080

slave dialectic should be understand

709

00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:26,880

understood literally or metaphorically

710

00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:28,720

is it a struggle between two people um

711

00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,000

at a time and place where obviously

712

00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:33,679

relations of servitude

713

00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:36,240

were commonplace or is it a

714

00:28:33,679 --> 00:28:37,600

condition between two realms of

715

00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,240

consciousness

716

00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:42,000

the key in either case is that each

717

00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,120

defines the other

718

00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,799

so here's jameson again summarizing the

719

00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:50,880

place of the master

720

00:28:46,799 --> 00:28:53,919

as he is constituted by the slave

721

00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:57,440

and i must say i find this version

722

00:28:53,919 --> 00:29:00,320

of janda's persistent dream metaphor

723

00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:02,240

far more compelling than cophallus's

724

00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,120

explanation of dream

725

00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,080

as a particular and unexpectedly

726

00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:09,200

powerful mode

727

00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:12,799

of remembering dream

728

00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,600

surface spectacle all of these are

729

00:29:12,799 --> 00:29:16,640

defined

730

00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:19,600

against labor so this

731

00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,799

is what happens to a subjectivity that's

732

00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,279

defined

733

00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:24,320

by jameson's luxury of a placeless

734

00:29:23,279 --> 00:29:27,760

freedom

735

00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:29,520

so in this essay uh john day takes a

736

00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:32,080

long solitary trip

737

00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,600

into a white on white snowscape it's

738

00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:36,640

from 1626

739

00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:40,799

in the heart of the little ice age

740

00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:43,360

um and he uh goes on this excursion

741

00:29:40,799 --> 00:29:43,919

and encounters another rich gentleman

742

00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,399

also

743

00:29:43,919 --> 00:29:48,640

enjoying a drink also having dragged a

744

00:29:46,399 --> 00:29:49,360

bun a retinue of servants into the

745

00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,240

middle

746

00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:53,520

of this snowscape this stranger from

747

00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,799

nanjing interrupts

748

00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,640

jandai's own perfect tableau but janda

749

00:29:56,799 --> 00:30:00,960

has done the same to him

750

00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:02,799

and when the doppelganger says in the

751

00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,399

middle of this lake how can there be

752

00:30:02,799 --> 00:30:06,960

another person

753

00:30:04,399 --> 00:30:08,480

we cannot tell whether jandai is voicing

754

00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,120

the stranger sentiment

755

00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,399

or the other way around because each

756

00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,559

imagines the other

757

00:30:12,399 --> 00:30:15,760

as part of this all-white visual

758

00:30:14,559 --> 00:30:20,159

landscape

759

00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:23,600

so this is what happens to the looker

760

00:30:20,159 --> 00:30:25,440

now when i return uh to

761

00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,880

i want you to recall the sea of

762

00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:30,240

chrysanthemums

763

00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:32,559

where there was tremendous pleasure in

764

00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:35,520

the confusion between three-dimensional

765

00:30:32,559 --> 00:30:38,000

display and two-dimensional display

766

00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,880

and this pattern recurs elsewhere as

767

00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,399

well

768

00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:44,480

in water margin cards jandai praises

769

00:30:42,399 --> 00:30:47,200

playing cards painted by his friend the

770

00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:51,120

celebrated artist chen hong shou

771

00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,520

and he claims that characters appear to

772

00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:55,039

pop

773

00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:58,720

out of the flat card now both

774

00:30:55,039 --> 00:31:01,360

flowers and cards are adjacent

775

00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:03,039

to tableau that treat actual living

776

00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,080

people this way

777

00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:07,519

as a component of visual effects so

778

00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,640

there is a topos

779

00:31:07,519 --> 00:31:13,120

of perfect casting behind

780

00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,760

both chrysanthemum party and water

781

00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,279

margin

782

00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:20,240

playing cards and the idea is that an

783

00:31:17,279 --> 00:31:21,120

actor might so completely resemble his

784

00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,440

role

785

00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:24,559

that he seems to pop out of a

786

00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,760

two-dimensional

787

00:31:24,559 --> 00:31:30,799

field now of course

788

00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:33,760

what differentiates perfect casting from

789

00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:36,399

a flower display

790

00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,279

is that in the case of perfect casting

791

00:31:36,399 --> 00:31:41,120

the medium

792

00:31:37,279 --> 00:31:43,760

are actual human beings so in some ways

793

00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:45,039

perfect casting foregrounds the social

794

00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,279

gradient

795

00:31:45,039 --> 00:31:49,519

its pleasures are the pleasures of

796

00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:52,080

command and control

797

00:31:49,519 --> 00:31:56,000

so this essay is about a wealthy family

798

00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:59,120

that spares no expense at casting

799

00:31:56,000 --> 00:32:00,320

and once villagers are cast and lavishly

800

00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,039

costumed

801

00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:05,840

their original identities are faced

802

00:32:03,039 --> 00:32:05,840

entirely

803

00:32:07,919 --> 00:32:14,480

the pleasure for the viewers here

804

00:32:11,519 --> 00:32:15,519

is not dissimilar to that enjoyed by the

805

00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,159

card players

806

00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:20,480

or guests at the chrysanthemum party

807

00:32:18,159 --> 00:32:22,799

this is all about representation

808

00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:25,360

and original blurred together in ways

809

00:32:22,799 --> 00:32:28,320

that are impossible to separate

810

00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,360

in the case of casting though the impact

811

00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,120

has to do with

812

00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,120

total social control

813

00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,200

now in considering zhandai's

814

00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,000

relationship to those who perform his

815

00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,240

labor

816

00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,440

i've done my best to avoid relying on

817

00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,919

the word slavery

818

00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:45,440

as an explanatory mechanism other than

819

00:32:43,919 --> 00:32:47,519

cheating a little bit and using it in

820

00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,480

the title of this paper and i recognize

821

00:32:47,519 --> 00:32:51,919

that

822

00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:55,440

um partly because i know that in english

823

00:32:51,919 --> 00:32:57,600

slavery evokes first a specific economic

824

00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,919

history

825

00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,760

a very distinctly transatlantic

826

00:32:59,919 --> 00:33:03,360

combination of racism and global

827

00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,760

capitalism

828

00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:08,080

but also the anglo-american political

829

00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:11,279

discourse that emerged from it

830

00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:14,320

in which the deployment of this word

831

00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:17,519

cannot be separated from its opposites

832

00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:18,080

freedom and liberty what i want to

833

00:33:17,519 --> 00:33:21,279

stress

834

00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:25,120

is that by the standards of uh

835

00:33:21,279 --> 00:33:28,559

the 17th by by our standards

836

00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:31,760

no 17th century chinese person was free

837

00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:35,200

or rather almost all were available

838

00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:37,519

under some circumstance to be transacted

839

00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:40,240

scholars of early modern china are

840

00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:42,320

currently engaged in a heated discussion

841

00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,679

as to how we can separate the mingan

842

00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:46,080

ching practices

843

00:33:43,679 --> 00:33:48,399

of human trafficking when they were so

844

00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:51,200

widespread as to be constitutive

845

00:33:48,399 --> 00:33:51,760

of all of society you know can we

846

00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:54,000

consider

847

00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,120

all women to be trafficked or subject to

848

00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,519

trafficking

849

00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,720

where marriage is a legitimate act of

850

00:33:57,519 --> 00:34:01,279

trafficking

851

00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:03,519

um does the traditional chinese family

852

00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:04,080

mean that radical transactionality

853

00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:07,039

governed

854

00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:09,040

everyone's identities what does it mean

855

00:34:07,039 --> 00:34:13,040

that people can sell themselves

856

00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,440

and that that option was open to men

857

00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:18,560

open to men because women of course were

858

00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:21,839

always being transacted by others

859

00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:24,879

radical transactionality permeated every

860

00:34:21,839 --> 00:34:28,079

corner of 17th century society

861

00:34:24,879 --> 00:34:31,280

and yet the genres that we read

862

00:34:28,079 --> 00:34:34,720

are governed by social compacts

863

00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:37,119

that um that make the direct

864

00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:38,879

outlines of this trade in people almost

865

00:34:37,119 --> 00:34:42,560

impossible to see

866

00:34:38,879 --> 00:34:43,679

these genres themselves constitute class

867

00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:46,839

identity

868

00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:49,359

they are complicit with ruling class

869

00:34:46,839 --> 00:34:52,480

interests now perhaps we're best

870

00:34:49,359 --> 00:34:55,280

off understanding 17th century slavery

871

00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:58,000

in grey scale infinite shades of

872

00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,280

hierarchy that descend down to absolute

873

00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:03,920

servitude

874

00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:06,720

instead of binary states so take the man

875

00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:08,000

take this man who depicts julian who was

876

00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:10,960

paid handsomely

877

00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:13,680

jandai tells us he lives in a world in

878

00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,920

which some people can sell themselves

879

00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,440

and both his total effacement of

880

00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:20,160

identity

881

00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:22,640

and its aesthetic pleasures must be

882

00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:25,280

understood within that context

883

00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:28,320

and i think it's critical to understand

884

00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:31,839

in these hierarchical games

885

00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:35,599

that one person's loss of agency

886

00:35:31,839 --> 00:35:38,800

comes at the hands of another as far as

887

00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:39,520

agency is concerned this is a zero-sum

888

00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,480

game

889

00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:43,440

with loss directly going to another's

890

00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:46,240

game

891

00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:49,119

and it's also rarely a one-on-one

892

00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:49,119

relationship

893

00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,400

the real pleasures of the tableau

894

00:35:51,599 --> 00:35:54,800

involve

895

00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:57,920

not only all the other participants

896

00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:00,640

losing all vestige of self-determination

897

00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,520

but also on the massive scale of human

898

00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,000

ownership

899

00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:05,040

so consider again chandai's pride in his

900

00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:07,119

lantern display

901

00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,280

at the end of this essay when he

902

00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:11,760

celebrates artistic control

903

00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:13,359

far in excess of that available to an

904

00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:16,480

individual

905

00:36:13,359 --> 00:36:19,520

the ratio of artist who is also

906

00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:22,720

impresario who is also owner

907

00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:26,000

to those who enable the vision is

908

00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:29,280

i don't know one to twenty one to forty

909

00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:32,240

one to hundreds okay

910

00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:34,240

probably someone is saying but chanda is

911

00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:35,040

famous for pointing out low status

912

00:36:34,240 --> 00:36:38,160

people

913

00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:40,640

what about lieutenant the popmark singer

914

00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,440

and in fact low status people make a

915

00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,359

number of appearances in these essays

916

00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,920

many people have pointed out that social

917

00:36:45,359 --> 00:36:48,640

mixing is implicit in the 17th century

918

00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:51,599

theater

919

00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:54,000

with elite impresarios and actors who

920

00:36:51,599 --> 00:36:55,280

otherwise occupied opposite ends of the

921

00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,800

social spectrum

922

00:36:55,280 --> 00:37:00,400

sharing the stage but let's take a look

923

00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:03,680

at when jaundice actually

924

00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:06,240

writes about low status people even the

925

00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,960

most superficially egalitarian of

926

00:37:06,240 --> 00:37:09,760

gestures

927

00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:12,000

is grounded on an understanding of

928

00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:16,000

status

929

00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:19,040

that is zero sum so elevating one person

930

00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:22,160

must mean degrading another so take this

931

00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:23,359

essay the point in elevating these

932

00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:26,400

particular men

933

00:37:23,359 --> 00:37:29,839

is not to erase status difference

934

00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:32,320

instead this essay is grounded on an

935

00:37:29,839 --> 00:37:33,920

not is not just grounded on an

936

00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:37,920

understanding of hierarchy

937

00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:41,359

it enacts an understanding of hierarchy

938

00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:43,359

it describes it creates new boundaries

939

00:37:41,359 --> 00:37:44,560

so by citing people who debase

940

00:37:43,359 --> 00:37:46,880

themselves

941

00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,480

the essay reconstitutes the line between

942

00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:50,640

true social equals

943

00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,599

and those who deserve their conduct

944

00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:54,560

conditions

945

00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:54,560

of subservience

946

00:37:55,119 --> 00:37:58,640

but even more the case the mixing of

947

00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,160

status

948

00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:05,280

in this world with its extremes

949

00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:07,760

of inequality is not neutral

950

00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,320

every tableau whether artificial or

951

00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:11,119

natural

952

00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:13,119

in the volume bears the marks of social

953

00:38:11,119 --> 00:38:15,520

control

954

00:38:13,119 --> 00:38:16,800

the essay unborn garden describes an

955

00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,200

excursion to the

956

00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,800

gardens at which elites and their social

957

00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,760

inferiors mingle

958

00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:25,839

the first five are elites the last three

959

00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:29,119

are professional entertainers

960

00:38:25,839 --> 00:38:32,400

you can imagine this one as a painting

961

00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:34,640

by again the french as an idealized

962

00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,480

version of elite leisure

963

00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:38,160

and though an important part of the

964

00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,320

misonsen

965

00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,440

the performers are cast here just as

966

00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:45,760

much as the man

967

00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:48,960

who played julian so here as well as

968

00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:50,560

elsewhere stage aesthetics permeate the

969

00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,480

essays they set up the writer's

970

00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:56,000

subjective position

971

00:38:52,480 --> 00:39:00,079

um so here we go

972

00:38:56,000 --> 00:39:03,200

um and i want to point out that

973

00:39:00,079 --> 00:39:04,800

even in essays that nominally have

974

00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:08,400

nothing to do with the stage

975

00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:11,119

you can see the traces of stage

976

00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:13,599

aesthetics so here's one of the

977

00:39:11,119 --> 00:39:16,240

collections most famous essays which is

978

00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:20,160

about yanzhou's red light district

979

00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:22,640

and it describes a lighting effect

980

00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,680

the resemblance to other essays about

981

00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,359

lighting effects

982

00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:30,240

is not incidental moreover

983

00:39:27,359 --> 00:39:32,160

just as the spectator remains detached

984

00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:35,040

from action on stage

985

00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,839

jannah's own position in this yanto red

986

00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:38,880

light district

987

00:39:35,839 --> 00:39:41,119

remains unspoken we assume

988

00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,079

that his neutrality means that he is a

989

00:39:41,119 --> 00:39:45,680

john

990

00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:49,599

but he does not tell us that

991

00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:51,520

so this essay describes the sexual

992

00:39:49,599 --> 00:39:55,200

trafficking of young girls

993

00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:56,320

in yangzhou and i want us to notice the

994

00:39:55,200 --> 00:40:00,079

way in which

995

00:39:56,320 --> 00:40:03,280

his subjectivity here is fully absorbed

996

00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:06,400

by the position of spectatorship

997

00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:08,400

so seeing and commodification

998

00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:11,040

are clearly closely related to one

999

00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:13,200

another this is all about how the girls

1000

00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:16,319

are paraded one by one

1001

00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:19,520

in front of a discerning buyer now

1002

00:40:16,319 --> 00:40:20,160

noticeably jung never places himself in

1003

00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:23,119

the scene

1004

00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:24,640

except as an eye exhausted by how many

1005

00:40:23,119 --> 00:40:27,920

girls there are

1006

00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:30,400

so many girls

1007

00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,400

elsewhere in chinese literature white

1008

00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:35,520

faces and red shirts

1009

00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:38,480

might be syntheticy for a beautiful girl

1010

00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:39,200

but here their girls reduced to what can

1011

00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,640

be seen

1012

00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:45,920

just as earlier their face hand skinned

1013

00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:48,000

eyes the lens of commodification that

1014

00:40:45,920 --> 00:40:50,480

transforms them into surface

1015

00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:52,079

does not limit its impact to those who

1016

00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:54,800

are seen it also

1017

00:40:52,079 --> 00:40:56,240

creates the kind of subject who

1018

00:40:54,800 --> 00:41:00,079

describes them

1019

00:40:56,240 --> 00:41:03,760

jandai himself so he continues

1020

00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:06,319

with this interesting comparison the i

1021

00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:08,560

insist on treating the girl who is

1022

00:41:06,319 --> 00:41:11,200

purchased for sexual purposes

1023

00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:13,839

with as much detachment as a word that

1024

00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,520

falls apart and loses meaning

1025

00:41:13,839 --> 00:41:16,880

it's almost as if the random

1026

00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,359

breaststrokes

1027

00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:21,839

are like the bits of visual stimulus

1028

00:41:19,359 --> 00:41:25,920

that the girl herself has turned into

1029

00:41:21,839 --> 00:41:29,920

white faces red shirts brush strokes

1030

00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:33,520

all stimuli alike in their eligibility

1031

00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:34,400

reduced to pure eye shandai is also

1032

00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,680

himself

1033

00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:41,119

stripped of context and involvement

1034

00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:43,200

and even of interiority it's interesting

1035

00:41:41,119 --> 00:41:45,760

to note

1036

00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,400

that uh john day's near contemporary wii

1037

00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,160

u

1038

00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,520

also wrote about buying a girl on

1039

00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,440

youngjoe um

1040

00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,560

and he positions himself very

1041

00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,880

differently

1042

00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:58,400

so the use essay is also about how hard

1043

00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,400

it is to pick out the right one

1044

00:41:58,480 --> 00:42:03,680

liu situates himself precisely in his

1045

00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,800

position of the market

1046

00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:09,839

accounting for his own objective remove

1047

00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:12,400

so he is a lower rank hangar on

1048

00:42:09,839 --> 00:42:13,440

offering consumer wisdom to the actual

1049

00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,079

buyer

1050

00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:17,440

so in other words he can write about his

1051

00:42:16,079 --> 00:42:20,480

lack of desire

1052

00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,520

because he's not buying for himself in

1053

00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:25,359

contrast

1054

00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:28,720

john day places himself

1055

00:42:25,359 --> 00:42:31,760

nowhere in this scene he offers up only

1056

00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:32,960

silence in an effort in any effort to

1057

00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,359

situate him

1058

00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,440

so that fundamentally this scene of

1059

00:42:35,359 --> 00:42:39,760

consumers desire because you know

1060

00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,880

why are you buying a girl if not for

1061

00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,599

desire

1062

00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:46,240

um it's turned into an interaction that

1063

00:42:43,599 --> 00:42:48,480

is stripped of all personal stakes so

1064

00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:50,720

there's a way in which the aesthetic eye

1065

00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:53,599

and the commodified girls

1066

00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:54,640

exist in a dyad they're each generating

1067

00:42:53,599 --> 00:43:00,160

each other

1068

00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:00,160

they are bits of stimulus he is and i

1069

00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:06,880

whoops in reading the essay

1070

00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,480

in enjoying the bits of stimulus

1071

00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,599

revealed to us

1072

00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:13,119

we take up his position we see through

1073

00:43:11,599 --> 00:43:15,359

his eye

1074

00:43:13,119 --> 00:43:17,200

but let me consider what is closed to us

1075

00:43:15,359 --> 00:43:20,079

in the process

1076

00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:22,640

we also remain in the dark about a whole

1077

00:43:20,079 --> 00:43:24,839

host of other questions

1078

00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,640

done that are you buying this girl for

1079

00:43:24,839 --> 00:43:28,960

yourself

1080

00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,720

which girl did you end up buying how

1081

00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,520

many times have you bought a girl this

1082

00:43:30,720 --> 00:43:36,000

way

1083

00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:37,440

did it work out well did you like her

1084

00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,119

these are all questions that are

1085

00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,319

foreclosed to us

1086

00:43:39,119 --> 00:43:45,839

because he is turned into this pure eye

1087

00:43:42,319 --> 00:43:48,319

but i think even worse he

1088

00:43:45,839 --> 00:43:48,880

creates this position in which neither

1089

00:43:48,319 --> 00:43:52,000

he

1090

00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:55,520

nor we can really theorize this

1091

00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:57,040

action so i want to extend this

1092

00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:00,640

phenomena

1093

00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:02,880

further than the skinny horses of yanjo

1094

00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,720

skinny horses is the only essay in the

1095

00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:06,839

collection which explicitly treats

1096

00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:09,599

trafficking

1097

00:44:06,839 --> 00:44:13,440

um uh i want to think about

1098

00:44:09,599 --> 00:44:15,920

how the focus on surface is foundational

1099

00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:18,160

to 17th century aesthetics so any of you

1100

00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:21,440

who study the 17th century

1101

00:44:18,160 --> 00:44:24,560

certainly have noticed it it's grounded

1102

00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:27,440

in radical inequality and the stage

1103

00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,960

so a beautiful surface focusing on the

1104

00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,760

circus surface

1105

00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:33,440

stands in for social control beautiful

1106

00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:36,560

surfaces are sometimes

1107

00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:38,079

created by social control writing about

1108

00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,720

beautiful surfaces

1109

00:44:38,079 --> 00:44:43,359

is addressed to the class of people who

1110

00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:47,040

in their enslaving of others desire

1111

00:44:43,359 --> 00:44:49,680

social control how else can we

1112

00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:52,560

understand the status of actors

1113

00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:55,040

in the zhang family troops in which

1114

00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,680

donde reflects on several generations of

1115

00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,680

his family's private drama troops

1116

00:44:57,680 --> 00:45:01,680

the essay links the aesthetics of the

1117

00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,760

stage and of servitude so

1118

00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:05,680

he first traces the family's long

1119

00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:07,760

history of drama appreciation

1120

00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,200

he starts with his grandfather's friends

1121

00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:11,040

and social equals

1122

00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:13,119

all of them holders of the changsha

1123

00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:16,640

degree and then he produces

1124

00:45:13,119 --> 00:45:18,000

this list these are the names of the

1125

00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,560

troops the family has

1126

00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:22,800

owned as well as the actors who belong

1127

00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:25,599

to these troops

1128

00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:26,800

then jumped and marvels at the passage

1129

00:45:25,599 --> 00:45:30,000

of times

1130

00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:34,480

marked by the five different troops

1131

00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:37,200

now from the perspective of the enslaved

1132

00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:38,800

what this line actually means is that

1133

00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:42,160

the individuals

1134

00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:43,760

that were listed grew old they were

1135

00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,560

disposed of

1136

00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:48,400

they died and they were replaced by

1137

00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:50,560

younger versions

1138

00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,440

but what he presents with us here is the

1139

00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:54,480

perspective

1140

00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,240

of the owner which is the perspective of

1141

00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:59,680

the surface

1142

00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:02,720

where what is on stage grows old

1143

00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:07,040

then young again and again

1144

00:46:02,720 --> 00:46:11,520

replaced discarded replaced

1145

00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:14,480

discarded the eye sees only surface

1146

00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,319

creepily enough this line could almost

1147

00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:20,400

cover how i consider the five

1148

00:46:16,319 --> 00:46:22,880

laptops that yale has bought for me

1149

00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:24,000

sunday's explanation of how it looks to

1150

00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,720

the eye

1151

00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:28,560

makes clear that two related aesthetics

1152

00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:32,560

are actually one

1153

00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:35,200

first that of perfect casting and second

1154

00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:37,920

that of the surface the chrysanthemums

1155

00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:41,280

that fill the scope of vision

1156

00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:44,480

the playing card the conclusion

1157

00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:46,800

which reflects on his own aging

1158

00:46:44,480 --> 00:46:47,920

takes the next step and equates

1159

00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,480

visuality

1160

00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:51,280

with the ownership of other humans he's

1161

00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,520

literally an

1162

00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,520

eye

1163

00:46:54,640 --> 00:47:01,040

now in trying to understand their world

1164

00:46:58,079 --> 00:47:01,599

and trying to put myself in their shoes

1165

00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:05,119

i hid

1166

00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:07,680

an obstacle to us a world

1167

00:47:05,119 --> 00:47:08,880

in which human beings are trafficked and

1168

00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:12,240

sold

1169

00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:15,359

is unacceptable to them

1170

00:47:12,240 --> 00:47:18,960

the opposite is true a world in which

1171

00:47:15,359 --> 00:47:22,400

other human beings were not transacted

1172

00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:25,920

is impossible to imagine owning people

1173

00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:27,119

grounds everything historians like

1174

00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:29,839

matthew summer

1175

00:47:27,119 --> 00:47:31,839

and joanna ronsmeyer implied that these

1176

00:47:29,839 --> 00:47:34,640

were the fundamental conditions

1177

00:47:31,839 --> 00:47:36,640

of the lady imperial family and thus of

1178

00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:39,040

society as a whole

1179

00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:41,200

somewhere and ransmeyer uses sources

1180

00:47:39,040 --> 00:47:43,440

that are 18th century and later

1181

00:47:41,200 --> 00:47:46,720

but the gist of their conclusions hold

1182

00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:50,160

for the 17th century

1183

00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:52,960

but of all spaces the stage

1184

00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:55,040

and specifically the stage on which a

1185

00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:58,240

family troupe performed

1186

00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,920

was the ultimate arena for control over

1187

00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:02,240

other human beings

1188

00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:03,680

the enslaved actors are told what to

1189

00:48:02,240 --> 00:48:06,480

wear what to say

1190

00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:08,160

how to look every detail of their

1191

00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,960

surface controlled

1192

00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:12,000

every detail of their personal habitus

1193

00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,200

how to talk

1194

00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:18,559

how to sing how to breathe

1195

00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,440

a display case for the way in which one

1196

00:48:18,559 --> 00:48:24,319

person

1197

00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:26,960

can take total autonomy from another

1198

00:48:24,319 --> 00:48:28,480

so one of the villains of takhashen

1199

00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:31,920

conscience play

1200

00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,559

peach blossom fan the real life brenda

1201

00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:36,319

chen

1202

00:48:32,559 --> 00:48:38,240

here called celebrated playwright whose

1203

00:48:36,319 --> 00:48:40,400

family troops were famous

1204

00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:41,359

as a site of artistic production and

1205

00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,440

control

1206

00:48:41,359 --> 00:48:45,839

that has probably only rarely been

1207

00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,640

replicated in world history

1208

00:48:45,839 --> 00:48:51,200

dante praises rantachan's troops in

1209

00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:55,040

these terms

1210

00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:58,160

this is total control

1211

00:48:55,040 --> 00:49:01,760

this is a valorization of owning

1212

00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:02,400

other people this turns owning other

1213

00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,440

people

1214

00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:07,839

into something beautiful and these are

1215

00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:11,119

the plays that i have been studying

1216

00:49:07,839 --> 00:49:13,040

for my entire adult life

1217

00:49:11,119 --> 00:49:15,839

you're probably pretty bored with me by

1218

00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,160

this point you're probably thinking that

1219

00:49:15,839 --> 00:49:18,559

if

1220

00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,240

essays that are about jaben or the

1221

00:49:18,559 --> 00:49:23,359

trafficking of girls

1222

00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:25,599

or flower shows bother me this much

1223

00:49:23,359 --> 00:49:26,800

i should probably just steer myself to

1224

00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:30,559

other topics

1225

00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:31,920

or maybe even to other writers a longer

1226

00:49:30,559 --> 00:49:34,559

version of this paper

1227

00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,119

involved more of a scavenger hunt to

1228

00:49:34,559 --> 00:49:37,520

recoup

1229

00:49:35,119 --> 00:49:39,119

some identity to the scores of enslaved

1230

00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:40,400

people who leave some trees in the

1231

00:49:39,119 --> 00:49:43,599

essays

1232

00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:46,319

but my point is that there is no escape

1233

00:49:43,599 --> 00:49:46,960

the charms of ta'amuni as a whole are

1234

00:49:46,319 --> 00:49:50,800

shaped

1235

00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,839

by radical inequality the same holds for

1236

00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:55,280

the volumes

1237

00:49:51,839 --> 00:49:57,440

gender voice and i fear holds for 17th

1238

00:49:55,280 --> 00:50:00,000

century literature as a whole

1239

00:49:57,440 --> 00:50:03,119

there is no jaundice who is not an owner

1240

00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:05,760

of other human beings

1241

00:50:03,119 --> 00:50:08,480

let me end with a final essay about a

1242

00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:10,319

famous courtesan

1243

00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:14,800

that concludes with a beautiful scene of

1244

00:50:10,319 --> 00:50:16,480

her weeping as the sun sets behind her

1245

00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:17,839

we're invited to appreciate the

1246

00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:20,079

constructed tableau

1247

00:50:17,839 --> 00:50:22,079

of an attractive woman weeping on a

1248

00:50:20,079 --> 00:50:24,160

bridge at sunset

1249

00:50:22,079 --> 00:50:25,200

even as we can understand the place of

1250

00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,599

neither john day

1251

00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:28,880

nor juju shen in this scene that he's

1252

00:50:27,599 --> 00:50:31,520

constructed

1253

00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:33,200

so we read this we cannot tell whether

1254

00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:34,960

she was jandai's lover

1255

00:50:33,200 --> 00:50:36,640

we cannot tell whether her tears have

1256

00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,240

anything to do with him

1257

00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:40,000

we cannot tell whether he was the

1258

00:50:38,240 --> 00:50:42,960

ultimate cause of the sorrow that

1259

00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:45,119

killed her but that's not the worst of

1260

00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:45,119

it

1261

00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:51,440

obviously we are meant to read her

1262

00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:53,839

sorrow and find it beautiful

1263

00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:56,720

and fundamentally we cannot tell whether

1264

00:50:53,839 --> 00:50:59,920

jaundice interactions with this tableau

1265

00:50:56,720 --> 00:51:01,200

arise out of his role as a fellow human

1266

00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:05,119

being

1267

00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:07,119

or as an empresario so when he writes

1268

00:51:05,119 --> 00:51:10,400

i asked her what was the matter she put

1269

00:51:07,119 --> 00:51:11,520

me off no aspect of his positionality is

1270

00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,839

known to us

1271

00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,680

whether he is relating a lover's coral

1272

00:51:13,839 --> 00:51:18,400

in which he is a participant

1273

00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:20,240

or whether he is a curator of a precious

1274

00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,920

scene

1275

00:51:20,240 --> 00:51:23,280

so the conditions that construct their

1276

00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:26,480

relationship

1277

00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:28,720

as a transacted person shape how we

1278

00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:31,200

and he see this scene as an

1279

00:51:28,720 --> 00:51:33,200

aesthetically appealing surface

1280

00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,480

but let us also recognize that these

1281

00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,680

circumstances

1282

00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:39,359

shape precisely what lyric prose can and

1283

00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:42,160

cannot say

1284

00:51:39,359 --> 00:51:44,559

outside of this social context there's

1285

00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:47,280

no aesthetic of the surface

1286

00:51:44,559 --> 00:51:49,200

no john day no classical language

1287

00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,280

vignette

1288

00:51:49,200 --> 00:51:52,400

if you are still listening i thank you

1289

00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,480

for your patience

1290

00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:55,680

i know that zoom talks are not easy to

1291

00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,720

listen to

1292

00:51:55,680 --> 00:52:00,559

and i assume that you are like me you're

1293

00:51:58,720 --> 00:52:02,800

someone with an investment

1294

00:52:00,559 --> 00:52:04,640

in this literature and in pre-modern

1295

00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:07,680

chinese culture

1296

00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,520

you're someone who cares i've made the

1297

00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:12,400

argument that southern drama

1298

00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:14,319

itself the pinnacle of whose performance

1299

00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:17,680

were family troops

1300

00:52:14,319 --> 00:52:18,559

is in the 17th century nothing more or

1301

00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:21,839

less

1302

00:52:18,559 --> 00:52:24,240

than the medium of slave owning

1303

00:52:21,839 --> 00:52:27,200

in other words i have yucked our

1304

00:52:24,240 --> 00:52:27,200

collective young

1305

00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:32,000

i'm gonna leave you with this i am

1306

00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:34,480

committed in my

1307

00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:35,680

practice as a reader in all the time

1308

00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:39,760

that has left me

1309

00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:43,040

to be rooter to my 17th century hosts

1310

00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:44,160

that i recognize that as a reader as a

1311

00:52:43,040 --> 00:52:47,440

teacher

1312

00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:50,800

as a modern as a woman there's

1313

00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:53,839

moral imperative to clarify our

1314

00:52:50,800 --> 00:52:54,720

critical positions that run against the

1315

00:52:53,839 --> 00:52:58,319

grain

1316

00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:59,760

of this literature itself that we have

1317

00:52:58,319 --> 00:53:04,240

to recognize that

1318

00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:07,520

enjoying this literature comes at cost

1319

00:53:04,240 --> 00:53:09,760

we are not 17th century slave holders

1320

00:53:07,520 --> 00:53:12,079

and we should be suspicious of their

1321

00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:14,640

overtures to us

1322

00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:17,040

thank you so much and i'm going to stop

1323

00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:17,040

sharing

1324

00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,599

thank you so much tina we really

1325

00:53:19,839 --> 00:53:23,920

appreciate you sharing your

1326

00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:25,119

thoughts and reflections and very recent

1327

00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:27,040

research with us

1328

00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:28,880

at this point i want to share turn the

1329

00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,960

screen back over to ingui

1330

00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:34,640

who will offer some reflections and a

1331

00:53:30,960 --> 00:53:34,640

few questions to get our discussion

1332

00:53:40,839 --> 00:53:46,240

going are we back

1333

00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:49,920

in the mode i think so

1334

00:53:46,240 --> 00:53:50,960

okay okay thank you tina for your very

1335

00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,960

intruding talk

1336

00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:56,319

i think it's very fresh perspective on

1337

00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:58,319

john day um

1338

00:53:56,319 --> 00:53:59,760

i'm still trying to you know putting

1339

00:53:58,319 --> 00:54:01,680

these uh different

1340

00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:03,599

uh strands of thoughts together because

1341

00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:07,119

this is very rich

1342

00:54:03,599 --> 00:54:08,079

um and i think i would take my privilege

1343

00:54:07,119 --> 00:54:10,800

as a

1344

00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:11,440

chair to ask the first question and so

1345

00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:13,599

i'm still

1346

00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,800

kind of wrecking trying to wrap my head

1347

00:54:13,599 --> 00:54:17,440

around this question

1348

00:54:14,800 --> 00:54:18,400

about you know these two realms of

1349

00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:21,839

consciousness

1350

00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:24,880

around the consciousness of the master

1351

00:54:21,839 --> 00:54:27,680

and writer and the consciousness

1352

00:54:24,880 --> 00:54:28,880

consciousness of this lower status

1353

00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:32,319

people that john da

1354

00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:36,880

and other authors wrote about

1355

00:54:32,319 --> 00:54:39,680

um so um you were saying

1356

00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:40,400

i am wondering how this uh you know

1357

00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:43,359

whether

1358

00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:45,760

you know how this perfect surface was

1359

00:54:43,359 --> 00:54:46,240

created and how that surface was kind of

1360

00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:49,280

a

1361

00:54:46,240 --> 00:54:51,440

very hard to penetrate um

1362

00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:52,799

in jaundice essay and also in other

1363

00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:56,240

assets of the late me

1364

00:54:52,799 --> 00:54:58,079

how was that related to the genre uh

1365

00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:59,520

in which the writer writes about in

1366

00:54:58,079 --> 00:55:02,559

other words

1367

00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,359

you know how is this genre specific i'm

1368

00:55:02,559 --> 00:55:06,720

having

1369

00:55:03,359 --> 00:55:07,760

uh in mind you know the vernacular

1370

00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:10,559

stories

1371

00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,920

uh the classical essay and also drama it

1372

00:55:10,559 --> 00:55:14,960

seems to me that

1373

00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:18,480

you know in drama uh especially uh

1374

00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:21,040

in some works of life um

1375

00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:22,400

i think he's consciously trying to

1376

00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,359

subvert

1377

00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:26,319

some of the you know the kind of perfect

1378

00:55:25,359 --> 00:55:30,559

surface

1379

00:55:26,319 --> 00:55:32,880

that uh in uh impenetrability that

1380

00:55:30,559 --> 00:55:34,079

you know johnny and others and even

1381

00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:36,559

himself trying to

1382

00:55:34,079 --> 00:55:38,160

you know create in his own essays

1383

00:55:36,559 --> 00:55:40,880

because in dramas we hear these

1384

00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:43,599

different kind of voices we hear them

1385

00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:44,720

you know the the literacy but also you

1386

00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:47,599

know the servants

1387

00:55:44,720 --> 00:55:50,240

the actors and actresses practice

1388

00:55:47,599 --> 00:55:54,400

prostitutes even craftsmen

1389

00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:58,079

so i wonder uh what's your take on that

1390

00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:59,760

and also uh whether you can you know

1391

00:55:58,079 --> 00:56:01,920

because we're mentioning that this is

1392

00:55:59,760 --> 00:56:03,839

talk is actually part of a longer essay

1393

00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,640

and it's a longer version you are trying

1394

00:56:03,839 --> 00:56:07,680

to recoup

1395

00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:10,799

some of the identity of the uh you know

1396

00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,839

this lower status people that you were

1397

00:56:10,799 --> 00:56:16,160

talking about so

1398

00:56:11,839 --> 00:56:19,119

whether you can elaborate on that

1399

00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:20,480

i mean i i feel like you are absolutely

1400

00:56:19,119 --> 00:56:23,119

right that um

1401

00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,599

a lot of this is about genre but i feel

1402

00:56:23,119 --> 00:56:27,280

like

1403

00:56:23,599 --> 00:56:29,280

the you know um so

1404

00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:30,960

also in the last few months i wrote an

1405

00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:34,640

essay for um

1406

00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:38,319

uh about um these play each one

1407

00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:41,359

um which um you know and i

1408

00:56:38,319 --> 00:56:44,400

i think like just thinking about the

1409

00:56:41,359 --> 00:56:49,440

genre of trenchi as a whole

1410

00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:53,200

where um it is a it is a genre that

1411

00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,960

in itself valorizes so and essentializes

1412

00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,839

social distinction

1413

00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,280

so why you know and in fact characters

1414

00:56:57,839 --> 00:57:00,960

talk about this sometimes there's that

1415

00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:01,359

famous part in tallahassee and kind of

1416

00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:03,839

like

1417

00:57:01,359 --> 00:57:05,440

you know like why am i a cho like you

1418

00:57:03,839 --> 00:57:06,960

know because you have face paint on

1419

00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:09,440

that's why you're a troll

1420

00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:11,520

um and you know so there's a way in

1421

00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:14,720

which the genre as a whole

1422

00:57:11,520 --> 00:57:18,720

um is rests on the idea

1423

00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:20,400

of social distinction so that hashem and

1424

00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:23,440

a den are always

1425

00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:25,760

elite people and they always

1426

00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,480

end up together in their proper social

1427

00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:28,799

position

1428

00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:32,400

even if over the course of the play they

1429

00:57:28,799 --> 00:57:34,240

were in hiding as lower status people

1430

00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,839

and so you know that's the kind of

1431

00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:39,119

central conceits

1432

00:57:35,839 --> 00:57:41,520

um but yet you're totally right the

1433

00:57:39,119 --> 00:57:42,240

within that there are all sorts of ways

1434

00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:46,880

to kind of

1435

00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:49,760

dig at it so um if jonathan for example

1436

00:57:46,880 --> 00:57:50,400

um you know kind of centers the action

1437

00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:54,400

on

1438

00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:55,680

lower status people um you have there is

1439

00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:59,839

no play

1440

00:57:55,680 --> 00:58:02,960

where a a cho or you know a shout then

1441

00:57:59,839 --> 00:58:06,319

is not like talking to their boss

1442

00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:06,880

in a rude way that challenges their boss

1443

00:58:06,319 --> 00:58:10,400

so

1444

00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:13,200

there's obviously within drama this real

1445

00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:14,000

um ability to see things from the

1446

00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:16,079

perspective

1447

00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:17,200

of the sub-altern and have the

1448

00:58:16,079 --> 00:58:20,000

sub-altern talk

1449

00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:20,799

back to the boss even within a larger

1450

00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:24,480

structure

1451

00:58:20,799 --> 00:58:27,599

that ends with pushing them down um

1452

00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:30,079

uh however

1453

00:58:27,599 --> 00:58:30,799

and and even john day has like you know

1454

00:58:30,079 --> 00:58:33,920

the

1455

00:58:30,799 --> 00:58:37,599

he in one of the essays about his friend

1456

00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:41,200

um panheissie and panhashi's um

1457

00:58:37,599 --> 00:58:42,000

uh wonderful job and where panhangi

1458

00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:45,200

plays

1459

00:58:42,000 --> 00:58:46,720

jin and cho rolls so like the kind of

1460

00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:50,000

crazy thing is

1461

00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:53,040

panichi was like in full control of

1462

00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:53,599

his troop while they're probably acting

1463

00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:55,280

out and

1464

00:58:53,599 --> 00:58:57,520

and they had a famously enormous

1465

00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,880

repertoire of like 60 plays that they

1466

00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,520

could put on

1467

00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:02,240

so i assume there are all these moments

1468

00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,799

where

1469

00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:06,640

pongichi is on stage controlling the

1470

00:59:04,799 --> 00:59:07,760

other actors while they're pretending to

1471

00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:10,240

hit him

1472

00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,839

and debase him and demean him because

1473

00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:15,760

that's what happens to a cho

1474

00:59:11,839 --> 00:59:17,040

on stage um so you know like in some

1475

00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:20,160

ways i feel like

1476

00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:23,119

the the the problem

1477

00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:24,559

each genre makes a different argument

1478

00:59:23,119 --> 00:59:28,160

and you're totally right

1479

00:59:24,559 --> 00:59:32,160

that liu's argument is often

1480

00:59:28,160 --> 00:59:35,440

a much more socially nuanced

1481

00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:39,200

one um both in his plays but i think

1482

00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:42,640

even in like chanting oji which is

1483

00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:45,680

very much a kind of like um

1484

00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:46,160

you know a different kind of attention

1485

00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:49,440

to

1486

00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:51,280

surfacing consumerism

1487

00:59:49,440 --> 00:59:53,200

does that answer your question at all or

1488

00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:56,880

is it just a whole like

1489

00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:59,040

uh a word blizzard well it totally makes

1490

00:59:56,880 --> 00:59:59,599

sense and also i think this conversation

1491

00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,079

about

1492

00:59:59,599 --> 01:00:02,880

you can be you know it can go on forever

1493

01:00:02,079 --> 01:00:06,640

but it just

1494

01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:07,520

reminds me of also leaves another play a

1495

01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:10,240

night

1496

01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:11,839

in which about the ugly man who marries

1497

01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:15,200

several women

1498

01:00:11,839 --> 01:00:16,640

and this man i think he uh

1499

01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,559

well he was supposed to well

1500

01:00:16,640 --> 01:00:19,520

conventionally he should be a young

1501

01:00:18,559 --> 01:00:22,480

character

1502

01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,359

but in that play he was said at the toe

1503

01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:26,240

he was cast

1504

01:00:23,359 --> 01:00:26,880

as a cho character whereas his servant

1505

01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:30,160

was caused

1506

01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:32,240

as a shang and you know

1507

01:00:30,160 --> 01:00:33,359

doing matchmaking and also taking his

1508

01:00:32,240 --> 01:00:35,839

place to

1509

01:00:33,359 --> 01:00:37,839

uh to meet these women so i think there

1510

01:00:35,839 --> 01:00:40,079

are you know

1511

01:00:37,839 --> 01:00:41,599

small places small ways in which you're

1512

01:00:40,079 --> 01:00:43,440

always trying to you know complicate

1513

01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:47,680

this issue

1514

01:00:43,440 --> 01:00:51,359

i mean i think that he is very aware

1515

01:00:47,680 --> 01:00:54,960

of the social norming that the genre

1516

01:00:51,359 --> 01:00:58,079

imposes um yes

1517

01:00:54,960 --> 01:00:59,920

okay i think um the floor is open to

1518

01:00:58,079 --> 01:01:03,280

questions we already have

1519

01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:06,400

several questions in the box so i will

1520

01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:09,680

just uh ask

1521

01:01:06,400 --> 01:01:12,720

them in order so the first

1522

01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:15,920

question is from matthew summer

1523

01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:17,440

massive please thank you thanks tina

1524

01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:19,760

that was great you know i already agree

1525

01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:23,520

with you on everything so

1526

01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:26,079

it's not a surprise but um so

1527

01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:27,680

i've noticed that um there is this

1528

01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:30,799

tendency

1529

01:01:27,680 --> 01:01:32,559

for scholars now thinking about topics

1530

01:01:30,799 --> 01:01:34,640

in the late imperial period to identify

1531

01:01:32,559 --> 01:01:37,520

with the elite actor the elite subject

1532

01:01:34,640 --> 01:01:38,960

and it's completely unconscious so when

1533

01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:40,400

our women's historians

1534

01:01:38,960 --> 01:01:41,839

look at polygamy they identify with the

1535

01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:43,599

main wife they never identify the

1536

01:01:41,839 --> 01:01:44,880

concubine of the maidservant

1537

01:01:43,599 --> 01:01:46,240

when people do legal history they

1538

01:01:44,880 --> 01:01:47,760

identify with the magistrate they don't

1539

01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,559

identify with the clerks and runners the

1540

01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:51,440

litigants

1541

01:01:48,559 --> 01:01:53,359

as it's a general tendency and and it

1542

01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:54,799

has an insidious effect i think

1543

01:01:53,359 --> 01:01:57,119

what i'd like to ask you is a very

1544

01:01:54,799 --> 01:02:00,079

obvious kind of

1545

01:01:57,119 --> 01:02:01,760

simple question why do you think it's so

1546

01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:04,319

and can you reflect back on us

1547

01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:05,440

and our subjectivity those scholars

1548

01:02:04,319 --> 01:02:08,640

working now

1549

01:02:05,440 --> 01:02:11,599

why do people looking at john dies work

1550

01:02:08,640 --> 01:02:13,520

always fail to see what you have shown

1551

01:02:11,599 --> 01:02:14,799

is really so obvious if you just look to

1552

01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:17,039

see it

1553

01:02:14,799 --> 01:02:17,920

why have so many of these authors and

1554

01:02:17,039 --> 01:02:20,160

scholars

1555

01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:22,720

failed to get that why have they been

1556

01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:25,520

seduced into liking what they read

1557

01:02:22,720 --> 01:02:26,960

when it is so obviously a beautiful

1558

01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:29,680

facade over a kind of

1559

01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:32,640

machinery of coercion and exploitation

1560

01:02:29,680 --> 01:02:32,640

thank you that's my question

1561

01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:38,880

i mean it's

1562

01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:39,760

i mean it's super complicated i also

1563

01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:43,119

feel like you know

1564

01:02:39,760 --> 01:02:44,079

like what we end up reading is the sugar

1565

01:02:43,119 --> 01:02:46,960

coating

1566

01:02:44,079 --> 01:02:48,000

um you know i wish i could see your face

1567

01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:50,160

matt it is actually

1568

01:02:48,000 --> 01:02:51,520

kind of like um disconcerting to be

1569

01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,920

speaking to the words m

1570

01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:53,920

summer

1571

01:02:55,920 --> 01:03:01,599

um you know i think we learned to read

1572

01:02:59,039 --> 01:03:03,599

poetry we learned to read plays we are

1573

01:03:01,599 --> 01:03:05,039

taught this language we are taught these

1574

01:03:03,599 --> 01:03:08,000

cultural impertinences

1575

01:03:05,039 --> 01:03:08,400

we get all the sugar coating and we

1576

01:03:08,000 --> 01:03:11,839

don't

1577

01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:12,480

get the other part of it which is why i

1578

01:03:11,839 --> 01:03:14,559

mean

1579

01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:16,400

except that i think there are some texts

1580

01:03:14,559 --> 01:03:17,280

like jinking may that are the other part

1581

01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,480

of it

1582

01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:23,280

um but you know it

1583

01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:23,920

may have to do with unfortunately our

1584

01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:27,039

position

1585

01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:30,079

as university professors as well

1586

01:03:27,039 --> 01:03:34,240

where our sub you know we may not

1587

01:03:30,079 --> 01:03:38,079

be very good allies to um

1588

01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:41,680

uh forms of justice that are important

1589

01:03:38,079 --> 01:03:42,720

um i was um in the longer version of

1590

01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:46,160

this essay i

1591

01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:48,160

cite the um translation mistakes

1592

01:03:46,160 --> 01:03:49,520

that are made by jonathan spence in his

1593

01:03:48,160 --> 01:03:53,359

recent book about

1594

01:03:49,520 --> 01:03:56,480

um john day and every one of them

1595

01:03:53,359 --> 01:03:57,039

you know i first want to say that tom

1596

01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,280

mungy

1597

01:03:57,039 --> 01:04:01,440

is such hard classical chinese that i'm

1598

01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:03,440

sure i have made many translations

1599

01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:05,760

mistakes in the slides that i have

1600

01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:08,799

shared so this is not to slight

1601

01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:12,640

people making mistakes in chinese um

1602

01:04:08,799 --> 01:04:16,400

but his errors are all um

1603

01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:20,480

they all shift in one way which is

1604

01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:25,200

that um so he says he calls

1605

01:04:20,480 --> 01:04:28,400

um abol in the uh

1606

01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:32,000

obsessions a song bird abol

1607

01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:34,799

is a slave boy who sings who has been

1608

01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:38,160

transacted to have sex with his friend

1609

01:04:34,799 --> 01:04:41,599

um you know i think we want to see

1610

01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:44,799

we we got this version

1611

01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:47,839

we got all the candy without the

1612

01:04:44,799 --> 01:04:51,760

horrible um sugar plantation

1613

01:04:47,839 --> 01:04:55,039

that made the sugar to make the candy um

1614

01:04:51,760 --> 01:04:56,160

and i think it is

1615

01:04:55,039 --> 01:04:58,960

i think it's actually kind of

1616

01:04:56,160 --> 01:05:02,079

responsibility as readers

1617

01:04:58,960 --> 01:05:02,960

to recognize that in so far as this

1618

01:05:02,079 --> 01:05:06,160

culture

1619

01:05:02,960 --> 01:05:09,039

is perpetu self-perpetuating and it is

1620

01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:11,280

um that you know where the candy comes

1621

01:05:09,039 --> 01:05:11,280

from

1622

01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,359

let me fight on

1623

01:05:17,440 --> 01:05:24,880

we have another question from rania

1624

01:05:21,039 --> 01:05:29,359

hi tina hi rania

1625

01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:31,760

yeah that that was wonderful um

1626

01:05:29,359 --> 01:05:32,480

i think i i know part of your answer to

1627

01:05:31,760 --> 01:05:37,039

this

1628

01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:39,119

but how do you tie

1629

01:05:37,039 --> 01:05:41,520

uh how do you tie everything you've been

1630

01:05:39,119 --> 01:05:42,960

talking about to the idea of loss

1631

01:05:41,520 --> 01:05:44,880

because that's the other thing everyone

1632

01:05:42,960 --> 01:05:46,799

talks about with jangdae and i i think i

1633

01:05:44,880 --> 01:05:48,559

remember you saying once that his

1634

01:05:46,799 --> 01:05:51,119

lament for the loss of the ming is that

1635

01:05:48,559 --> 01:05:54,720

he doesn't own the people he used to own

1636

01:05:51,119 --> 01:05:56,960

anymore uh so

1637

01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:58,960

what happens to the master subject

1638

01:05:56,960 --> 01:06:00,480

position

1639

01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:03,200

when you've lost a lot of those

1640

01:06:00,480 --> 01:06:03,200

beautiful things

1641

01:06:03,359 --> 01:06:10,720

it's a great question so first of all i

1642

01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:11,599

am very unsure exactly how poor he ended

1643

01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,400

up

1644

01:06:11,599 --> 01:06:14,880

um and so that's the kind of that's the

1645

01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:18,160

mean

1646

01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:19,280

objective answer um the unsympathetic

1647

01:06:18,160 --> 01:06:22,720

answer

1648

01:06:19,280 --> 01:06:25,039

i think they ended up less rich um

1649

01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:26,319

uh but when you were so rich that your

1650

01:06:25,039 --> 01:06:28,799

family could literally

1651

01:06:26,319 --> 01:06:29,760

light up a mountain with like land like

1652

01:06:28,799 --> 01:06:32,480

you know hand lit

1653

01:06:29,760 --> 01:06:33,599

lanterns less rich might not be that

1654

01:06:32,480 --> 01:06:37,200

much less rich

1655

01:06:33,599 --> 01:06:40,079

that's one thing the other thing is

1656

01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:40,400

i think that the only way that this can

1657

01:06:40,079 --> 01:06:43,440

be

1658

01:06:40,400 --> 01:06:46,960

written is under the perspective

1659

01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:48,880

of the past so

1660

01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:51,200

you know i think what when you're

1661

01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:54,160

reading chinese literature

1662

01:06:51,200 --> 01:06:55,760

you could almost like start marking

1663

01:06:54,160 --> 01:07:00,319

every time someone says

1664

01:06:55,760 --> 01:07:03,359

oh i'm so poor i'm poor i'm not rich um

1665

01:07:00,319 --> 01:07:04,000

and what you realize is no one is saying

1666

01:07:03,359 --> 01:07:06,480

they're rich

1667

01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,440

even people who are obviously so damn

1668

01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:10,240

rich

1669

01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:11,440

you know like everybody is poor so poor

1670

01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:15,359

and richer

1671

01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:17,280

rhetorical positions and to be able to

1672

01:07:15,359 --> 01:07:20,799

write about the past

1673

01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:21,920

rich is just giving you license to say

1674

01:07:20,799 --> 01:07:25,359

what you cannot say

1675

01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:27,039

about the present rich so nobody can

1676

01:07:25,359 --> 01:07:30,000

write about the present

1677

01:07:27,039 --> 01:07:31,039

like wow i am so darn rich i am really

1678

01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,799

really rich

1679

01:07:31,039 --> 01:07:34,240

you know those are words that can't be

1680

01:07:32,799 --> 01:07:37,440

put together

1681

01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:40,880

um so i think that's what

1682

01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:42,720

you know i could be a nicer person but

1683

01:07:40,880 --> 01:07:46,160

that is actually what the law

1684

01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:50,400

says to me it's an it's an entry way to

1685

01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:50,400

um to speaking about wealth

1686

01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:57,839

okay thank you tina uh we have uh well

1687

01:07:54,079 --> 01:07:57,839

the third question is from paul

1688

01:08:01,359 --> 01:08:07,440

hi dana hi um

1689

01:08:04,720 --> 01:08:08,799

yeah so i kind of want to just move this

1690

01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,640

a little bit away from

1691

01:08:08,799 --> 01:08:13,520

the synological discussion kind of

1692

01:08:10,640 --> 01:08:15,359

return to your your framing devices

1693

01:08:13,520 --> 01:08:17,279

this is something that emerged to you

1694

01:08:15,359 --> 01:08:18,080

out of the 1619 project and i think

1695

01:08:17,279 --> 01:08:20,719

that's a really

1696

01:08:18,080 --> 01:08:22,319

fascinating way to approach this because

1697

01:08:20,719 --> 01:08:24,960

i think the whole topic

1698

01:08:22,319 --> 01:08:26,480

is incredibly interesting but one of the

1699

01:08:24,960 --> 01:08:28,000

things i wonder is

1700

01:08:26,480 --> 01:08:30,880

are there things that come out of your

1701

01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:34,080

work on chiang dai that could

1702

01:08:30,880 --> 01:08:36,400

could be perhaps usefully useful or

1703

01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:37,359

interesting to say you know nicole

1704

01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:40,480

hannah jones

1705

01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:41,679

who did write the 1619 project or how

1706

01:08:40,480 --> 01:08:43,839

would you present this

1707

01:08:41,679 --> 01:08:45,600

to people who are kind of trying to

1708

01:08:43,839 --> 01:08:47,120

reframe our thinking about american

1709

01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:50,719

history

1710

01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:50,719

are there lessons for them in this

1711

01:08:51,199 --> 01:08:55,679

i mean i feel like they are like too big

1712

01:08:53,520 --> 01:09:00,719

league for people like me

1713

01:08:55,679 --> 01:09:00,719

um but and and really like

1714

01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:05,359

you know i think that there is this

1715

01:09:04,159 --> 01:09:09,359

whole

1716

01:09:05,359 --> 01:09:12,799

um early modern culture of

1717

01:09:09,359 --> 01:09:16,159

coercion and sexual exploitation

1718

01:09:12,799 --> 01:09:17,839

that is the fundament to our modern

1719

01:09:16,159 --> 01:09:19,679

world

1720

01:09:17,839 --> 01:09:22,480

and i think that's the kind of glorious

1721

01:09:19,679 --> 01:09:26,159

thing about the 1619 project

1722

01:09:22,480 --> 01:09:29,839

um i am waiting to see

1723

01:09:26,159 --> 01:09:31,520

whether like synologists

1724

01:09:29,839 --> 01:09:33,359

and maybe especially psychologists from

1725

01:09:31,520 --> 01:09:36,400

the chinese speaking world like

1726

01:09:33,359 --> 01:09:37,600

can we get the distance from our

1727

01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:41,920

materials

1728

01:09:37,600 --> 01:09:45,440

to actually see that about our materials

1729

01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:48,960

that they underlie some

1730

01:09:45,440 --> 01:09:52,319

really unpalatable mechanics

1731

01:09:48,960 --> 01:09:55,679

that are in some ways still functioning

1732

01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:59,040

um you know i think that we tend to

1733

01:09:55,679 --> 01:10:00,080

as uh matt said we tend to identify with

1734

01:09:59,040 --> 01:10:03,120

the people at the top

1735

01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:05,600

of the the totem pole um

1736

01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,960

but that is this kind of unspoken

1737

01:10:05,600 --> 01:10:11,040

identification that is

1738

01:10:06,960 --> 01:10:14,640

everywhere in cynological work um

1739

01:10:11,040 --> 01:10:15,040

you know it is um it it's in the people

1740

01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,280

who

1741

01:10:15,040 --> 01:10:18,719

kind of without very much reflection

1742

01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:22,400

talk about javen

1743

01:10:18,719 --> 01:10:24,400

as um wonderful opportunities for

1744

01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:27,840

artistic expression

1745

01:10:24,400 --> 01:10:28,640

um you know that like how do we get to a

1746

01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:32,560

point where

1747

01:10:28,640 --> 01:10:33,440

we actually can clarify our own critical

1748

01:10:32,560 --> 01:10:36,640

position

1749

01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:39,679

and see and not collude

1750

01:10:36,640 --> 01:10:41,920

um you know i mean i

1751

01:10:39,679 --> 01:10:43,280

understand that there is this need to

1752

01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:46,159

feel like

1753

01:10:43,280 --> 01:10:46,800

you know the wonderful you know i think

1754

01:10:46,159 --> 01:10:49,280

like

1755

01:10:46,800 --> 01:10:50,080

like you like so many people on this

1756

01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:54,159

call

1757

01:10:50,080 --> 01:10:56,320

um reading pre-modern chinese

1758

01:10:54,159 --> 01:10:58,560

has been some of the most pleasure i've

1759

01:10:56,320 --> 01:11:02,239

had in my whole life

1760

01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:04,400

and but i i don't want to have that

1761

01:11:02,239 --> 01:11:07,199

pleasure without

1762

01:11:04,400 --> 01:11:07,199

inspecting it

1763

01:11:09,280 --> 01:11:13,840

we have another question from sauron

1764

01:11:16,480 --> 01:11:23,360

okay hi nice my professor hi

1765

01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:24,719

yes for the first time in person but by

1766

01:11:23,360 --> 01:11:27,040

zoom

1767

01:11:24,719 --> 01:11:28,159

of course i have known your work and um

1768

01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,320

for a long time i

1769

01:11:28,159 --> 01:11:31,440

really like your work and thank you so

1770

01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,480

much for

1771

01:11:31,440 --> 01:11:36,000

such a fascinating talk um especially

1772

01:11:34,480 --> 01:11:40,239

for offering such a

1773

01:11:36,000 --> 01:11:43,440

fresh perspective on familiar materials

1774

01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:47,040

so i guess it's very important for us to

1775

01:11:43,440 --> 01:11:49,760

reflect the politics of taste and

1776

01:11:47,040 --> 01:11:50,239

aesthetics so for that i really thank

1777

01:11:49,760 --> 01:11:53,840

you

1778

01:11:50,239 --> 01:11:54,159

yeah very inspirational um i would like

1779

01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,960

to

1780

01:11:54,159 --> 01:11:58,560

have a quest uh ask you a question about

1781

01:11:56,960 --> 01:12:01,840

the ruling class

1782

01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:04,960

um so jongdae yeah i also cite him

1783

01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:08,480

in my uh new book um so

1784

01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:12,000

i really like him as you know

1785

01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:12,560

um independent scholar unofficial class

1786

01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:15,280

or

1787

01:12:12,560 --> 01:12:16,000

a representative the mountain man you

1788

01:12:15,280 --> 01:12:20,440

know

1789

01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:24,640

um posing against the civil service

1790

01:12:20,440 --> 01:12:27,600

examinations um so in that sense

1791

01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:29,360

i'm not sure if we could call him uh you

1792

01:12:27,600 --> 01:12:32,560

know member of the ruling class

1793

01:12:29,360 --> 01:12:36,800

maybe in cultural taste yeah um he was

1794

01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:39,920

a influencer you could say um

1795

01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:42,960

um so uh and also the slaves

1796

01:12:39,920 --> 01:12:46,800

uh were in many uh occasions

1797

01:12:42,960 --> 01:12:50,159

uh context of objects of desire

1798

01:12:46,800 --> 01:12:53,199

and uh they were empowered also

1799

01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:53,600

so i would just like you to comment on

1800

01:12:53,199 --> 01:12:57,040

that

1801

01:12:53,600 --> 01:13:00,400

thank you so much um

1802

01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:02,560

so i think when i talk about ruling

1803

01:13:00,400 --> 01:13:04,800

class

1804

01:13:02,560 --> 01:13:06,480

so one thing that i've noticed is that

1805

01:13:04,800 --> 01:13:10,400

in general people

1806

01:13:06,480 --> 01:13:12,880

are deeply aware of

1807

01:13:10,400 --> 01:13:14,080

the people right above them on a totem

1808

01:13:12,880 --> 01:13:16,640

pole

1809

01:13:14,080 --> 01:13:18,480

and i think that this goes especially

1810

01:13:16,640 --> 01:13:20,960

for academics too

1811

01:13:18,480 --> 01:13:22,159

you know i have wasted so much of my

1812

01:13:20,960 --> 01:13:24,640

life

1813

01:13:22,159 --> 01:13:27,199

thinking about deans and like hating

1814

01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,199

dems

1815

01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:32,640

you know and i think that we are we

1816

01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:36,000

within any hierarchy

1817

01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:37,120

that that's it's always your adjacent

1818

01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:40,000

layers

1819

01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:42,000

that are your that you see with greatest

1820

01:13:40,000 --> 01:13:43,280

clarity and usually the layer right

1821

01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,560

above you

1822

01:13:43,280 --> 01:13:50,640

um and i would

1823

01:13:46,560 --> 01:13:54,880

argue that from our perspective

1824

01:13:50,640 --> 01:13:58,719

virtually everyone who like you know

1825

01:13:54,880 --> 01:14:01,920

sunday is ruling class in the sense that

1826

01:13:58,719 --> 01:14:02,560

he is a descendant of a and high

1827

01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,120

official

1828

01:14:02,560 --> 01:14:06,560

and he's from a family that is so

1829

01:14:05,120 --> 01:14:10,640

wealthy and shouting

1830

01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:13,920

and so well known for their wealth um

1831

01:14:10,640 --> 01:14:15,360

i think that no he wasn't an official

1832

01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:18,719

yes he was a shannon

1833

01:14:15,360 --> 01:14:22,000

but that in some ways

1834

01:14:18,719 --> 01:14:24,560

is about that kind of microscopic

1835

01:14:22,000 --> 01:14:26,880

attention to social difference where

1836

01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:29,280

someone might say about me and i would

1837

01:14:26,880 --> 01:14:32,080

say oh but i'm not a dean

1838

01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:34,080

you know i'm totally powerless i'm just

1839

01:14:32,080 --> 01:14:37,440

like a normal tenured professor

1840

01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:42,159

without seeing that in the scope of like

1841

01:14:37,440 --> 01:14:45,920

american academe um i have a pretty good

1842

01:14:42,159 --> 01:14:48,480

um and so like i think that

1843

01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:49,760

when you you know because i'm thinking

1844

01:14:48,480 --> 01:14:51,440

about the youtube because of the

1845

01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:53,760

questions that we're following

1846

01:14:51,440 --> 01:14:55,600

um when you think about like shanking

1847

01:14:53,760 --> 01:14:58,719

with you for example

1848

01:14:55,600 --> 01:15:00,880

um he is so clear that he's not rich

1849

01:14:58,719 --> 01:15:02,239

no no no i'm not rich i'm so not rich

1850

01:15:00,880 --> 01:15:04,880

i'm so poor

1851

01:15:02,239 --> 01:15:07,199

um but then like the ways that he

1852

01:15:04,880 --> 01:15:09,360

describes the poor

1853

01:15:07,199 --> 01:15:10,400

it's clear that even then they are what

1854

01:15:09,360 --> 01:15:13,679

we would consider

1855

01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:16,159

like middle class

1856

01:15:13,679 --> 01:15:18,400

you know like he doesn't give

1857

01:15:16,159 --> 01:15:22,640

subjectivity or agency

1858

01:15:18,400 --> 01:15:26,640

to the lord only knows what percentage

1859

01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:29,600

of 17th century society that were

1860

01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:30,560

actually had no disposable income that

1861

01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:33,600

actually

1862

01:15:30,560 --> 01:15:37,760

might have to sell a child to buy

1863

01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:42,080

food etc etc etc and so i feel like

1864

01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:45,520

you know um probably ruling class is too

1865

01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:47,840

blunt in instruments but i do think that

1866

01:15:45,520 --> 01:15:51,520

the kind of the idea that

1867

01:15:47,840 --> 01:15:54,880

we imagine pre-modern china

1868

01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:57,199

and we imagine its pleasures

1869

01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:59,280

and the people who enjoyed those

1870

01:15:57,199 --> 01:16:01,520

pleasures

1871

01:15:59,280 --> 01:16:02,880

to call that ruling class is probably

1872

01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:06,880

not

1873

01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:07,600

that inaccurate um so that's the first

1874

01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:10,400

thing

1875

01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:10,719

the second thing is what about the power

1876

01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:15,199

that

1877

01:16:10,719 --> 01:16:15,199

certain enslaved people had

1878

01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:24,640

i'm gonna argue that um

1879

01:16:21,199 --> 01:16:27,120

that's almost like um

1880

01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:28,239

and this is again to draw on the 1619

1881

01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:30,400

project

1882

01:16:28,239 --> 01:16:32,560

it's almost like like reading

1883

01:16:30,400 --> 01:16:36,159

reconstruction materials

1884

01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:38,880

and having sympathy for southerners who

1885

01:16:36,159 --> 01:16:39,199

were so upset that all of a sudden

1886

01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:43,600

they're

1887

01:16:39,199 --> 01:16:46,719

like these these uppity former slaves

1888

01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:48,320

um you know i i think that the power

1889

01:16:46,719 --> 01:16:50,880

that they have so

1890

01:16:48,320 --> 01:16:51,440

let me just go back to chief jean-pierre

1891

01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,560

the

1892

01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:57,679

chisholm's obsessions um where

1893

01:16:54,560 --> 01:17:00,400

he writes john that writes about abba

1894

01:16:57,679 --> 01:17:02,400

um who his friend chijano has purchased

1895

01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:05,199

to be a sexual partner

1896

01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:05,679

and and then chi-chi-chan actually runs

1897

01:17:05,199 --> 01:17:08,880

off

1898

01:17:05,679 --> 01:17:12,159

with abba um

1899

01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:16,159

alba is not powerful you know

1900

01:17:12,159 --> 01:17:19,840

um and it is

1901

01:17:16,159 --> 01:17:23,679

part of the way of

1902

01:17:19,840 --> 01:17:26,159

reading and seeing through

1903

01:17:23,679 --> 01:17:27,120

or through john died that we would say

1904

01:17:26,159 --> 01:17:29,199

oh but

1905

01:17:27,120 --> 01:17:30,159

about unlike the tongue toe that are

1906

01:17:29,199 --> 01:17:33,199

carrying him around

1907

01:17:30,159 --> 01:17:36,000

actually has a name um

1908

01:17:33,199 --> 01:17:38,560

you know i think that what we're talking

1909

01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:42,400

about is a society that is

1910

01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:45,600

so unequal

1911

01:17:42,400 --> 01:17:46,400

that we can barely conceive of it and in

1912

01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:49,040

the

1913

01:17:46,400 --> 01:17:50,800

um scavenger hunt version of this paper

1914

01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,600

i actually kind of try to go through

1915

01:17:50,800 --> 01:17:53,679

some of the

1916

01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:55,520

essays and try to figure out like how

1917

01:17:53,679 --> 01:17:57,040

many people did he drag out to the

1918

01:17:55,520 --> 01:17:58,880

middle of this lake

1919

01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:01,040

because they're you know when they're

1920

01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:01,600

having wine somebody is carrying the

1921

01:18:01,040 --> 01:18:05,120

wood

1922

01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:06,000

to heat up to light the fire to heat the

1923

01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:08,560

wine

1924

01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:11,040

somebody is bringing along the someone

1925

01:18:08,560 --> 01:18:13,440

cook the food

1926

01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:14,400

uh there's somebody who's driving the

1927

01:18:13,440 --> 01:18:17,679

boat

1928

01:18:14,400 --> 01:18:20,800

um all none of whom are

1929

01:18:17,679 --> 01:18:24,080

named all of whom are rendered

1930

01:18:20,800 --> 01:18:27,360

invisible by this surface and

1931

01:18:24,080 --> 01:18:30,560

it's very hard for me to see like a

1932

01:18:27,360 --> 01:18:33,920

a built-in king or an abba

1933

01:18:30,560 --> 01:18:37,199

as a kind of example of an empowered

1934

01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:38,000

enslaved person what about the case

1935

01:18:37,199 --> 01:18:40,880

discussed

1936

01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:41,360

by sophie wolf and jio ching and the

1937

01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:45,199

channel

1938

01:18:41,360 --> 01:18:49,840

song you know the male actor gyotin

1939

01:18:45,199 --> 01:18:49,840

kind of as desire

1940

01:18:50,239 --> 01:18:57,360

powerful elite

1941

01:18:53,280 --> 01:19:00,400

i mean so i think like these

1942

01:18:57,360 --> 01:19:02,239

kind of young male actors are

1943

01:19:00,400 --> 01:19:04,000

as powerful as you can get as an

1944

01:19:02,239 --> 01:19:08,320

enslaved person

1945

01:19:04,000 --> 01:19:11,840

um they're still being transacted

1946

01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:14,800

um you know it's just like

1947

01:19:11,840 --> 01:19:16,400

um you know that in the kind of grand

1948

01:19:14,800 --> 01:19:19,880

scheme of the way that

1949

01:19:16,400 --> 01:19:23,199

that power is being distributed in that

1950

01:19:19,880 --> 01:19:26,960

society um

1951

01:19:23,199 --> 01:19:29,679

that is not a life i i i'm very glad to

1952

01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:30,560

in in the kind of like i'm very glad to

1953

01:19:29,679 --> 01:19:34,640

have been born

1954

01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:34,640

into my positionality rather than that

1955

01:19:34,840 --> 01:19:40,239

one

1956

01:19:37,280 --> 01:19:40,239

thank you so much

1957

01:19:40,960 --> 01:19:44,880

okay so we have uh two questions and a

1958

01:19:44,320 --> 01:19:48,000

comment

1959

01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:51,360

waiting the box so michael suggests that

1960

01:19:48,000 --> 01:19:53,360

we will latina answer these questions

1961

01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:56,080

and after that we will

1962

01:19:53,360 --> 01:19:56,960

wind down the formal q a session but we

1963

01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:59,199

will still

1964

01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:00,000

welcome everybody to stay and hang

1965

01:19:59,199 --> 01:20:03,120

around and

1966

01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:07,040

you know talk and so um first

1967

01:20:03,120 --> 01:20:07,040

um matthew has a comment

1968

01:20:07,120 --> 01:20:10,080

thank you yes just briefly um this is

1969

01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:12,320

sort of an obvious thing to point out

1970

01:20:10,080 --> 01:20:14,239

but in regard to paul's question

1971

01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,840

i think the the american analogy to the

1972

01:20:14,239 --> 01:20:16,880

kind of nostalgia you see in zhang dai

1973

01:20:15,840 --> 01:20:19,120

would be

1974

01:20:16,880 --> 01:20:20,400

the lost cause mythology about the old

1975

01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:23,520

south this sort of

1976

01:20:20,400 --> 01:20:25,679

um glorification this nostalgia

1977

01:20:23,520 --> 01:20:27,840

celebration of the old south

1978

01:20:25,679 --> 01:20:29,679

which is based on a very explicit denial

1979

01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:32,000

of the reality of slavery

1980

01:20:29,679 --> 01:20:32,960

and if you can imagine i don't know if

1981

01:20:32,000 --> 01:20:36,000

thomas jefferson

1982

01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:36,719

old age had written a poem or an essay

1983

01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:39,120

about

1984

01:20:36,719 --> 01:20:40,639

how beautiful sally hemmings was and we

1985

01:20:39,120 --> 01:20:43,600

were all expected to read that