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Unknown Speaker 0:00

My name is Robin Derby and it's my great pleasure to welcome you to this inaugural event which commences a year long exploration and celebration of Black Lives Matter across the world. Hosted by the International Institute at UCLA. This complex series has been an unprecedented collaboration across many of the centers and programs within the International Institute. Many people have come together to make this series possible. But we would like to give thanks in particular, to senior associate vice provost and director of the International Institute, Chris Erickson, and Vice Provost for international studies and global engagement. Cindy fan, who believed in this project from the beginning and got the ball rolling. Jennifer Chung key organizer, organizer extraordinare, as well as enthusiastic coconspirators Jorge Mark Toronto Jenny sharp, Laurie Hart, Shana Potts, Erica Anjum, as well as he polytopes colourfulness out Alden young, Catherine Paul, Peggy McHenry, Chloe Heuga, Steven Acosta, Oliver Shin Kaia, mentes, globe mentes glue so glue, Alex and Alex do as well as our co sponsors the Atlantic history seminar and the program on Caribbean studies of the Latin American Institute. Our format for today is that each speaker will have 20 minutes to present, which should leave ample time for questions. But the questions should be sent to the moderator via the q&a forum, not the chat function.

Unknown Speaker 1:35

I'm thrilled to announce my up to introduce my colleague Brenda Stevenson, who holds the Nichols family Endowed Chair in the Department of History at UCLA. She's a social story in whose work centers on gender, race, family and social conflict in America and the Atlantic world from the colonial period through the late 20th century. She received her undergraduate degree from the University of Virginia and a PhD in American history from Yale University. Her publications include the award winning books, life in black and white family and community in the slave south and the contested murder of Latasha harlands, justice, gender and the origins of the LA riots, along with what is slavery, the journals of Charlotte fortum, grim K, and numerous other co authored co edited journal articles and book chapters. She has served on the executive board of the Organization of American historians on campus, she served as chair of both the Department of History and the program in African American Studies. She's a member of several editorial boards, scholarly journals, and a distinguished lecturer for the the Organization of American historians. Brenda is often heard on local NPR affiliates and quoted in the press, and she's contributed to numerous documentaries. She's currently collaborating with local artists Carla J. On a five year five part mixed media installation entitled bitter Earth, the history of African American women, Professor Stevenson's many scholarly awards include the Raleigh prize for the best book in the history in the history of race relations from the Organization of American historians, the gustavus Meyer Book Prize, the Carter G. Woodson scholars medallion from the Association for the Study of African American life in history, the Wilbur cross Medal from Yale graduate school, the john blessing game award for the southern Historical Association, the Ida B. Wells award by the women in a news media organization. UCLA is gold shield Faculty Award, as well as UCLA faculty research lectureship and the Williams, Andrew Clark library professorship, the title of her talk today is Black Lives Matter, historical roots.

Unknown Speaker 3:50

Well, hello, and thank you, Robin, for that really nice introduction. And thank you everyone for coming out.

Unknown Speaker 3:56

Well, at least remotely to participate in this first event, one of many wonderful ones that are to, to come. I'm very thankful for everyone who helped to organize this event and everyone who is present today.

Unknown Speaker 4:13

I also would like to recognize that you know, UCLA is the one indigenous lands and

Unknown Speaker 4:20

for particularly the lands of the Tonga peoples, and very, very thankful that we are able to use

Unknown Speaker 4:28

that land. I want to talk today to talk about blacklivesmatter and a way that historicize is it to a certain extent, and because as I was asking early on, if you heard me if you came in early, was I going to be talking specifically to academics or to people in the public.

Unknown Speaker 4:50

I want to apologize for those persons who are already experts in this particular field, but I will, you know, be talking very generally about these processes of reasoning.

Unknown Speaker 5:00

stance on these processes of revolution in this processes of recognizing and protecting black life, across the generations. Since I particularly work on the areas and the topic of slavery for much of the work that I do,

Unknown Speaker 5:18

I will begin in that particular era. And so what I'm going to do with you all, first is share my screen, I have a few slides that I'd like to show as I as I talk

Unknown Speaker 5:30

with you.

Unknown Speaker 5:31

Okay, so, um,

Unknown Speaker 5:36

alright, um, so I'm going to be looking at a few case studies, actually one big case study, and then a couple beforehand, to just talk about this practice of resistance and caring for in deciding that black life is important and that Black Lives should be protected. One of the things that I always tell my students when they asked about black resistance and black revolution, and I say to them, you know, in terms of people who are living in the Americas who are black, or descended from Africa, the first African who said, No, I will not be enslaved, either by someone who looks like me, or someone who does not look like me, is really the beginning of black lives matter. You know,

Unknown Speaker 6:23

it is at that moment that this determination that I am valuable, that I am a person that I deserved, I deserve to live and to enjoy my life and have family and have community and have my spirituality, etc, and use my body for myself not for someone else's benefit, that is the beginning of Black Lives Matter. And this is a very, very, very long trajectory. And of course, it is, it is human, to resist and to and to protect oneself, this factory is more than human is animal, you know. And so we are created to protect ourselves

Unknown Speaker 7:09

to value ourselves to move forward in the world in that way. And so this is really the root of the roots of Black Lives Matter. So I just want to see if I can move forward.

Unknown Speaker 7:24

Okay.

Unknown Speaker 7:26

So I begin actually, with something that I just pulled off of, you know, the website from Black Lives Matter, because I think it's very important for us to be let me just make sure I do this properly. Okay. I want to make sure if I do it this way, where am I? Right, I want to make sure that we understand, you know, I'm not an expert in black lives matter the movement. And so I spent a lot of time thinking about it and reading about it and participating in and etc. But it is such a diverse movement. It is there's so many

Unknown Speaker 8:03

stakeholders in it. And but it's also and it's a wonderful movement, but it's also a movement that has been, you know, people have said lots of things about it that perhaps are not true. So let's just start with the source. And so as it says here, now blacklivesmatter emerged from the hearts and minds of our three co founders Patrice colores, Alicia Garza, and opal temerity. It came to live right here in Los Angeles, with the first chapter was birthed out of her story is an important telling of the emergence of Black Lives Matter. And Black Lives Matter Los Angeles specifically, as a reclamation of a recommitment to black radical organizing, and black freedom struggle. And so what I'm going to focus on particularly is black freedom, struggle.

Unknown Speaker 8:57

Okay, so as I said, I'm particularly a scholar of persons who were enslaved in the Americas, particularly in the part of the Americas that became the United States of America. And so in terms of black revolutionary practice,

Unknown Speaker 9:15

there are many, many, many examples. So in the era of slavery, of or of enslavement, whether we're looking at marinized, whether or not we're looking at futility, of an individual sword, whether or not we're looking at slave revolt, and and we see this happening, as I said, from the very beginning, as Africans were seized or at whether or not we see it as

Unknown Speaker 9:40

a suicide as we see it, as you know, murdering, once kept or etc. There are many, many expressions of a blackbird revolutionary action with protection of black lives

Unknown Speaker 9:55

as a part of it, but I'll start with the the abolitionist

Unknown Speaker 10:00

I took again this image off of the internet because it has a mixed a mixture of various peoples and various processes. Whether you have people like Sojourner Truth or many of the people for the Douglas, of course,

Unknown Speaker 10:18

that you can see the first two

Unknown Speaker 10:21

images that are there on the first row are persons who hit the electric trail who wrote about enslavement and, and were very much important in organizing revolutionary action that would have released and did release enslaved people from their enslavement, their bondage. William Steele is the next person if you know, he's one of the people very much involved in the Underground Railroad. The next line of people that we see here are people who are lecturers with shoulder forton, for example, who is a writer and teacher and scholar etc. involved in the movement since early life and then Charles limits Ramon and his sister, who are on the next two. And so we as we see, there are many, many ways in which people approached, approached Black Lives Matter at the very bottom, in the left of the right hand corner. We did this picture of a lot of like Yano, for example, the famous, famous on autobiographies to at least biographies. And then at the very end, Martin Delaney who was invested in colonization, as well as revolutionary practices. So there was a lot of people who were involved in the abolitionist movement. And one of the what I like about talking about the abolitionist movement, when we look at what we call the formal abolitionist movement, when we look at when, for example,

Unknown Speaker 11:49

an American anti slavery society was founded, or the Liberator magazine was first published, of course, the abolitionist movement begins much earlier than that. But if we look at what we think of is one of the founding moments of it, which was in 1830, in some ways, very similar to black lives matter, because in 1830, no one even though England was about to abolish slavery,

Unknown Speaker 12:15

to a certain extent, gradually, in the Caribbean,

Unknown Speaker 12:20

people would not have thought that slavery would have ended in 35 years in the United States that is legally ended in any way to separate those persons who were found to be guilty of a crime. And so with black lives matter when it was founded.

Unknown Speaker 12:37

No one would have thought that it would be what it is now. Okay, no one thought that I mean, if you remember, Black Lives Matter, was and still is criminalized, it's thought of as a radical group. And radical is always dubbed as inappropriate. It said criminal to a certain extent.

Unknown Speaker 12:57

And so the same was said about these abolitionists, the same thing was said, first of all, the persons like Frederick Douglass and Sojourner Truth, who took their own freedom,

Unknown Speaker 13:09

were considered criminals, because they had quote, unquote, broken the property, law of a person being able to own a person of color at the time period. And so abolitionists were thought as radical as criminals, as you know, trying to steal people's property away from them the same way that we talk about, you know, people who, in some of the protests, who damage material goods, or who may even take some material goods, and we, we talk about them as not having the right to these goods and destroying the

Unknown Speaker 13:47

property, etc. First of all, I'm not saying that there is a people associated with Black Lives Matter, we know that a lot of people who are not well allied with this organization on with the movements that they that that, that they sponsor, I have been doing these taking care taking these kinds of actions, but the criminalization of radical of black revolutionary practice is something that we see happening, you know, as early as the 19th century earlier than that, from from the very beginning of Africans being taken. I mean, who was considered who was the first person to die in the Boston Massacre, Christmas addicts, because that's what's considered of a criminal. Why because he had taken his own freedom he had, quote, unquote, run away from enslavement, because he stood up to the British, you know, so no matter where we we see this activity happening, in some ways,

Unknown Speaker 14:47

you know, people will criminalize it, they would denigrate it. And so the same thing was happening with the black abolitionists and with the white abolitionists as well. Well, it started off as a small

Unknown Speaker 15:00

Small groups of peoples is individuals who came together and within 35 years and seven said slavery ended

Unknown Speaker 15:08

in what became what was the, at the time the largest slave society, 4 million people on the ground enslaved in the Americas. All right? So and it came about it in many different from many different perspectives, in terms of what exactly were the actions that they invested themselves in. Some were scholarly, some were political, some were legal, somewhere

Unknown Speaker 15:35

in the streets, in terms of having protests, in the street, parades, books that were published, poems that were written songs that were saying, and, and, of course, newspapers, so the media, etc. And this kind of comprehensive attack on the evil the cruelty of slavery.

Unknown Speaker 16:02

All right, so that's sort of my first very quick case study.

Unknown Speaker 16:07

Um,

Unknown Speaker 16:09

the next

Unknown Speaker 16:12

case study that I want to talk about is really during the Jim Crow era, the Jim Crow era, which we usually date and starting around 1876 or so. But after Jim Crow, it's existed in the country, from the very beginning races were separated, that was racial, or privatized, you know, from the 16th century forward, but we think about it really as beginning after the after reconstruction after the period after the Civil War, where, after the 13th amendment was ratified in 1865, and then a response to that, of black people gaining certain rights, freedom for one supposed to leave with the 14th amendment. Also,

Unknown Speaker 16:57

equality before the law, of course, this never happened. And then with the 15th amendment with men who were born in this country, whether you are black and not being able to vote, so during this time period, there was a lot of activity, the time period of Jim Crow 18 76,000,002, through the 1960s. And many women were involved. And I'm just using these pictures because again, it reminds us, of the four mothers of the founders of the Black Lives Matter movement, those three women in Los Angeles. And so we can see here up in the right

Unknown Speaker 17:35

left hand corner, is this is a photograph of women who were involved in the black Women's Club movement, which was called the Negro Women's Club movement of the 1920s. They still exist today, as well, who are very much involved in anti Jim Crow, legislation and activities for particularly anti lynching activities, and as well as expansion of education, expansion of the center of suffrage, etc. Up in the right hand corner here, this beautiful photograph of nanny barrows, who was a teacher at the time, but also a scholar, but also was an anti lynching advocate, and pro black life, pro black equality.

Unknown Speaker 18:26

advocate, and the left hand corner at the bottom, you will probably notice this is the woman because is it B wells, who really championed the cause of lynchings she is really the mother of anti lynching

Unknown Speaker 18:41

activity, her newspaper, her political activities, her legal activities, putting herself and her family, all in danger to to show the world, what lynching how black people were being lynched in the south, and not just black men, but also black women and black youth, and other peoples as well. And then this is the sign from this period and Jim Crow, in terms of Black Lives Matter, activity practice. This is a sign which is hanging outside of New York, offices for the NAACP, the NAACP, being found in the first decade of the 20th century coming out of the niagra movement. And so the focus was on that only black people really being able to take advantage of what are called reconstruction amendments to the Constitution, the 13th amendment with ending slavery, the 14th Amendment, which gave citizenship as well as which upset that black people we were equal under the law and the 15th amendment which allow black male suffrage all of these things were meant, of course, to protect black lives.

Unknown Speaker 20:00

Okay, to indicate the equality of black people, but something which had not at all been embraced and indeed, was eroded during this time period. So all of these, see this movement, this moment, and all these different iterations also are foundational to what we see happening not only in this country, but globally with regard to Black Lives Matter. Okay, and the last and third and last,

Unknown Speaker 20:35

actually haven't gotten to yet this is one more, one of the things that I'm really interested in. And I think it's very important to look at Black Lives Matter is the way in which youth, people who young black people are at the root of much of what happens, which starts with my dog in the background, with regard to

Unknown Speaker 20:57

black revolutionary activity. And so oftentimes, when we look at the sparks that lead to unrest was what was happening on the streets. We see it today with the Black Lives Matter movement, from the summer into even today, because very little has been done to address the issues. In 1919, Eugene Williams was a young man who drowned, he was stoned while swimming.

Unknown Speaker 21:29

And off in the lake in Chicago. And, and it was there that, you know, because if the beach was segregated, people started throwing rocks at him, and he eventually actually drowned. And there was a race, right what was called a race, right, it was actually a black lives matter, moment, movement occurring at this time period. Two, this is a photograph of him. And you can see at the top of it in this newspaper said this boy's death caused the race riot, right. In the middle, you'll also see something that happened in the 1930s. And this is in New York City. 4000, right in Harlem, one killed, if you look at the picture, that's very, that's much that's in the middle. It says right underneath this boy started a riot with a point in store riot. But he had been, this was a Puerto Rican young man 16 years old, who worked in his or department store. And

Unknown Speaker 22:34

what we see happening here is that it was a it was a rumor that he was hurt in the store, he was accused of stealing, he was hurt. And, and he basically, um, you know, hid himself. And but as a result of him hiding himself, there was a rumor started that he had been killed. And when the rumors started, that he had been killed, black people on the street, both black and Latin, Latin x, people decided to, you know, pursue this

Unknown Speaker 23:07

parades and protest against the police because policing, police then were, were thought of as having harmed this young man. So oftentimes, we see even today with black lives matter. But the spark really is how young people are treated, how the future of the black community how the future of any community is treated, and how the most vulnerable in our society, we tend to be youth, how they're treated by the most powerful, which are policing agencies and the forces behind them. And this sits really at the base of movements of black revolutionary movements, how to protect the most vulnerable, the young, the next generations, etc, within our society. So we have happening in the 1920s teens 20s 30s 40s, for example, it's really a focus on black people trying to be protected as equally protected before the law in the law, having the right to vote on having the right to education, equal education, having the right to healthcare, the same kinds of things that we see.

Unknown Speaker 24:25

Equal Employment employed meant for equal wages, etc, that we see that has taken hold or is being implemented by Black Lives Matter movements we see happening all through this time period. In this period that we call Jim Crow. There was no case that was more influential than that of Emmett Till. And this is a photograph a beautiful photograph of a beautiful young Emmett Till prior to 1955 when he

Unknown Speaker 25:00

was murdered. Now, as I said, all these cases are important, all of this, you know, focus on protection of black life and black equality, etc is important from the colonial period of our history forward. But we're now in the middle of the 20th century. And, you know, this, the civil rights movement, as we currently Think about it, it's taking off 1954 was Brown versus Board of Education, but there was still a great focus on the harm that was done in the law and outside the law to black people, and that black people could not find protection by policing agencies, but just on the end, that black people could not find justice once harm had been done to them. Alright, so um, you know, the story, I hope, you know, some of the story where Emmett Till like many teenagers and young people who lived in cities outside of the South, but whose families had migrated

Unknown Speaker 26:10

from the south and the great migration, but they send the children back home to visit with their grandparents, their Southern cousins and aunties, etc, and to also to work and it's a way that their parents could continue to work in the city when they were out of school. And these little kids, or young people or adolescents would learn and be close to their family members will learn about, you know, their cultural, the roots, etc. So this is his grandfather's home. And this is what Emmett Till and his cousin, who accompany him, were staying that summer, in 1955, with their grandparents and with the other cousins, who were staying there, who came from different places, all right. And they had come not only to spend time with their relatives, and to enjoy each other's as cousins, often do, who are about the same age, but also to pick cotton. That was another thing that also people did in the, in the, during the summertime, they send their kids home. And if you were big enough and willing to do so you would earn a few dollars a week. I think his cousin said he earned $4 a week, the first few days he was there, which was a lot of money at the time for a teenager whose parents were getting very, very low wages. So you could pick cotton, and of course, money Mississippi, which is where they were staying right in the black belt, where cotton is grown.

Unknown Speaker 27:42

Today is still grown there, but it's certainly in the 1950s it was the major crop that was being grown. And black people were the major bodies that were being used to harvest and to grow and care for this crop. All right, so this is the Brian, this is the store in which

Unknown Speaker 28:02

Emmett Till went into, whistled at a young white woman whose family owned the store, the Bryant's. And immediately, everyone knew that he had crossed the line of racial etiquette that was that was deeply drawn up throughout the United States, but certainly, in the American South, and certainly in the deep south as Mississippi is.

Unknown Speaker 28:32

This is what happens to him as a result of it. And so I'll, they're going to be several really, really difficult images. But if you know the story of Emmett Till, you know that her the woman's husband and, and, and one of his relatives were out of town, they were in Texas, at the time that happened, when they got back to money, Mississippi, they heard that some Blackboard from the North has had had sexually assaulted, because I mean, it was a whistle. But the story had grown to that he had actually gotten very close to her and he put his arm around her waist. He looked her in the face, and he has said that he had kissed a white girl before excetera, etc. That's not at all what happened. But that's what they were told. And it really wouldn't have mattered too much. I mean, oftentimes people argue about whether or not the whistle itself was alone to have them lynched was enough to have lunch, and it was, but at any rate, the woman who

Unknown Speaker 29:37

was at the center of this problem, did say that indeed he had touched her that he had whistled at her. It was years later, actually in the 1980s when she finally told the truth and said none of that had happened. But at any rate, he is beaten to death and shot in the head and thrown in the river.

Unknown Speaker 30:00

And it's a few days later that his body is found.

Unknown Speaker 30:05

This was a lynching that really, really, really was at the bedrock of the next 10 years in terms of the civil rights movement.

Unknown Speaker 30:18

All right, so this is

Unknown Speaker 30:21

Emmett Till's mother Mamie till. And she decided and she she makes a very brave decision, which is, first of all, she claims she talks about the innocence of her son. She told the world that her son was a sweet, innocent, fun loving young man obviously meant no harm, that she has sent him to his grandparents, for him to have a fun loving, productive summer with his family, that he was not a criminal he had done, he had done anything wrong and that, you know, his life, his young life had been destroyed. And she makes the decision not to have The Undertaker's when they receive his body, alter his face at all, not to do anything to make his face look better. And she made the decision as well. To have an open coffin, she said, I want the world to see what they did to my baby, I want the world to see what they did. To my child, it is the same same face cry, that black lives matter. Answer to the many, many mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, cousins, grandparents, etc. who have gone through what made me till I went through to see the young people in their lives destroyed. Now this is a picture of this is

Unknown Speaker 31:50

this is a weight away that I can't remember what it is. Now, I think it's a scale or engine from a cotton gin. That was actually you can see the wire at the top of it once. Emmett Till had been beaten beyond recognition and shot in the head. In the middle of the night, the two men who had done it, put this around him and threw him into the river. Okay, and so when he was found, this was hanging around his neck, if you might imagine.

Unknown Speaker 32:23

These, if you see the two men who were here, this is a courtroom scene, you can see that the wives of the men are allowed to sit with them at the table where they are, that they looked very relaxed, that is almost a kind of party mood. That is there. And this is often what we see in lynchings too, oftentimes just a huge crowd, people have gathered to see that justice is done to save those people who have imposed racial etiquette within the society. And so as you can see, it's not being taken seriously by the men and their wives or their to get them give them support.

Unknown Speaker 33:12

Okay, these are the three principal people who are involved. This is the wife on the right hand side, Mrs. Bryant, who was supposedly whistled that, and this is her husband right beside her and his cousin was beside him. And these two men are the men that we know, killed Emmett Till Lynch, Emmett Till, how do we know that they Lynch Emmett Till, first of all, there was a lot of evidence to that fact, they came, they told me Till's mother that they were going to kill I mean, grandmother, that they were going to kill him, and if she said anything to anybody that they would kill her to. So there was lots of evidence to that effect. But also we know, because a few months after they were acquitted, they were paid $4,000 by time, Life magazine, which one it is now, one of the most popular magazines and cut to give their story. And they bragged about the fact that they killed him that they've taught him, you know, a lesson and that they made him suffer, etc, that he had no right to, you know, approach a white woman in that way and that they were doing this for all the right way. And they laughed about it, and they, you know, they were very happy to get their $4,000 and of course, not ever have to face any kind of punishment, but what they had done.

Unknown Speaker 34:33

Okay, again, this is the picture of Emmett Till.

Unknown Speaker 34:37

Now, right, this is what this 14 year old boy looked like when his mother received his body back from money, Mississippi.

Unknown Speaker 34:48

And you can see on this page, this is from jet magazine, which published a photograph. You can see his mother and father who this is the first time

Unknown Speaker 35:00

They see his body and this is when they receive the body at The Undertaker's.

Unknown Speaker 35:06

Okay. And again, Mrs. Till's response to the taking of her son. That's so important so core to what Black Lives Matter. And these other other this long history of black revolution in protection of black life is part of this is her actually leading a rally who are people there are many rallies after the Mattel murder and trial when these people were found not guilty by all white male jury. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 35:43

This actually they actually is

Unknown Speaker 35:48

there's a place that he is he is taken very seriously. There's a memorial of him in Mississippi. This is a marker with a spot where he was found. And of course he will still in Mississippi and other places on the drive, but they still shoot at it. They still try to destroy it. They still are Shay it was okay to Lynch, Emmett Till.

Unknown Speaker 36:12

All right, and this is something that just happened two days ago, as you can see,

Unknown Speaker 36:18

October 22, I believe, and a young man was killed by the by the police in Waukegan. And this is the protest that resulted from it.

Unknown Speaker 36:33

Oh, I'm gonna stop my share now. And I know my time is up. So I'm going to

Unknown Speaker 36:42

I'm going to end up here and I'll take questions later.

Unknown Speaker 36:46

Thank you very much

Unknown Speaker 36:49

for your presentation. And now I am delighted to to introduce you to Deborah Tomas and les and after that, our moderator.

Unknown Speaker 37:09

They will Thomas is a renowned scholar, author, filmmaker and artist who is the art Jean Bromley professor of anthropology and the director of the Center of affordable mental ethnography at the University of Pennsylvania. She's also a core Faculty of gender and sexuality and Women's Studies at the artist Paul center uncle's appointment in the Graduate School of Education, the school of social policy and practice and practice and in the department of Africana Studies, Professor Snowmass has published extensively aggregated disciplines on topic relating to Jamaica and the Caribbean on race and gender and community confronting systemic violence on performance and culture on political economy and the plight of imperialism. She's the author of political life in the wake of the plantation sovereignty witnessing repair now from 2019.

Unknown Speaker 38:02

A, also of exceptional violence, I'm Bali citizenship, international, Jamaica, and of modern blackness, nationalism, globalization and the politics of culture in Jamaica, and she is the CO editor of the volume, globalization and race transformation in the cultural production of flatness. She's the CO director and co producer of two films. Now, the first one is about Freida Faria, Cora Garland's a documentary that chronicle the history of violence in Jamaica, from the perspective of the farming community, and the director and co producer for vice in May, and experimental documentary that addresses the May 10 may 2010. mass killing of dozen civilians committed by Jamaican security forces in the Tivoli garment neighborhood of Keystone rewrite take to recess three fame Professor Tomas is also the CO curator of a multimedia installation entitled, bearing witness for race in West Kingston, which opened at the Penn Museum in November 2017. Fun finite led media that among Kirby pinballing in professional organization assurance, Professor Toma was during the last these last four years, the editor in chief of American anthropologies they fly shy, sorry, the flagship Journal of the American Anthropological Association. And before that she was quality of the German transforming anthropology from 2007 2010. Her presentation today is entitled, can Black Lives Matter in a black country? Not from Jamaica? After no a they were as seen? Ah, no. A we will invite the audience to make a question through the q&a section and our moderator Professor Shani Shara.

Unknown Speaker 40:00

A will raise the question Professor Shannon Sharpe is professor in the Department of English, the department Comparative Literature and Gender Studies at UCLA, and has published widely on gender, the black Atlantic among cultural circles of globalization. Professor Sharpe is the author of allegories of empire the future of women in the colonial taste, because of a very literary archaeology of black women life under ration their recent material archives in African the politics of floss know of this year, a thank you very much. And, you know, the,

Unknown Speaker 40:39

the this the screen that they were,

Unknown Speaker 40:44

we have the screen. Thank you very much, Jorge, and thank you to all of you for inviting me to participate in what is going to be I'm sure a fantastic year of conversations coming out of some of the things that went on this summer. If you hear things in the background, it's because I live on a

Unknown Speaker 41:09

main street, and it can be quite loud sometimes. So I'm hearing the engines revving right now.

Unknown Speaker 41:16

Um, Brenda provided a really nice kind of encapsulation of the historical trajectory of what we might think about as a black lives matter, prehistory in a way and a long black lives matter movement in the United States. And I want to use my time today to think a little bit about how we conceptualize the possibility of Black Lives mattering in other spaces outside of the United States, and how we think about that, especially in a majority black country, like Jamaica, so I'm going to talk a bit and then I'm going to share my screen. And I'll be showing you it without audio, some

Unknown Speaker 42:08

images, right from a version of the experimental film that I'll talk about a little bit. Not the version I'm talking about, but a different one and and then I'll end up with some more dialogue.

Unknown Speaker 42:23

Okay, so the answer to the question of whether Black Lives Matter in majority blacks faces would seem to many Americans and especially to many African Americans, to be a foregone conclusion. Without a history of de facto apartheid. A Black Country, like Jamaica could certainly not be structured by the same racial dynamics that plagued the United States that this is far from the case occasionally becomes clear when we screen our film for days in May in Jamaica.

Unknown Speaker 42:57

The film features narratives we recorded with residents of West Kingston after the Tivoli incursion in 2010, when Jamaican security forces supported by the United States entered the Tivoli Gardens community in search of Christopher Douglas Koch, who had been ordered for extradition to the US to stand trial for gun and drug running charges. The search for coke resulted in the deaths of at least 74 civilians at the hands of the police and the army, though community members put this number closer to 200. In the film, mothers describe watching their sons being executed. A brother mourns the killing of a sibling shot execution style next to his stepfather and on to talks about having to identify her nephews body part of which had been burned beyond recognition. Other young men described being taunted by soldiers made to run while shots were fired after them being tied to other men and kept in a leaky bathroom overnight, not knowing whether they were going to live or die.

Unknown Speaker 44:05

Tivoli Gardens has always been what one resident called the flagship community for the Jamaica Labour Party, which is one of the political parties. The mother of all so called Garrison's and garrison communities are territorially rooted homogenous voting neighborhoods in downtown Kingston, where political support has been exchanged for contracts and other social welfare benefits, and that these exchanges have been mediated through the relationship between an elected politician the Member of Parliament for the district and the local dawn, a local leader.

Unknown Speaker 44:42

While the partisanship of garrison communities has been enduring, the relationship between elected politicians and community leaders became part of a more general theological struggle during the 1970s and transformed again as the elaboration of the trends

Unknown Speaker 45:00

National trades in cocaine and weapons supplanted a previously smaller scale trafficking in ganja.

Unknown Speaker 45:08

The latter phenomenon strengthen the role of the dawn's visa be the politicians as Dawn's increasing evil involvement in both innocent and legitimate businesses provided politicians with financial support. In addition to the militia like support offered during election periods. Garrison's therefore exist as the primary low sigh of political corruption historically, and in the present.

Unknown Speaker 45:36

Tivoli Gardens downtown garrison ghetto. These terms mark the slot of blackness insofar as blackness refers to that position that both instantiates and potentially undermines and undoes the liberal order, the position that makes it insecure. And to say that geography mediates the experience of racialized objection connects the question of the value of black life to a question about security and corruption. Just as some black lives seem to matter more than others, some ghetto lives do as well.

Unknown Speaker 46:16

Those living in what have been termed garrison communities often remain outside the realm of public empathy, because there seem to destabilize the security of liberal governance more generally, even as the broader phenomena that contextualize their existence remain obscured.

Unknown Speaker 46:34

In a context in which the promise of sovereignty has been rooted in the nominal extension of the rights of citizens, and the limited elaboration of subjectivity for those who accepted a particular policing of gendered and racialized respectability. garrison dwellers have not always been seen as worthy of protection, their deaths not always worthy of mourning.

Unknown Speaker 47:01

During one post screening discussion of our film in Kingston, a woman who had been a political representative for the people's National Party, which was during the 70s, a kind of Democratic Socialist Party, and this was during the height of the political turf wars, also exacerbated by the United States and the anti communism fervor that was going on at the time. This woman spoke of being terrorized by the dawn of Tivoli Gardens during that period. She shipped with rage as she asked, what has Tivoli learned from their experiences in 2010.

Unknown Speaker 47:40

As the COVID-19 curfews were on through May 2020. The 10th anniversary of the Tivoli incursion, which began the 24th of may 2010, threatened to pass without remembrance, the evening of the 24th of May, we received a phone call from a relative who works at one of the national television stations. She asked if they could screen our documentary The following day, since they had neglected to organize commemorative programming related to the anniversary.

Unknown Speaker 48:11

As four days in May aired on TV, Jamaica, the evening of May 25, George Floyd was being killed by police in Minneapolis. And as Jamaicans decried this act of police violence across various media, the police and army incursion into Tivoli Gardens was rarely mentioned, generating allowed and resonant silence.

Unknown Speaker 48:33

I guess people are still conflicted about Tivoli, a friend remarked.

Unknown Speaker 48:38

So with my brief remarks today, I want to interrogate a relation I want to prove the project of security, which I which I'm defining as the protection of liberal post coloniality that sanctions whiteness class hierarchy and hetero patriarchy in relation to a desire for safety. Improving this relation within a context in which police violence and extrajudicial killing are not typically seen as part of the global phenomenon of anti black racism. I seek to contribute to a conversation in which Rishi ality is not tethered to physicality, but instead is grounded in both historical ideological and onto epistemological phenomena that produce whiteness as the apex of humanity.

Unknown Speaker 49:27

This production presumes not only transparency and universality, but also determination and causality and there I'm drawing from Denise forehead on Silva's work.

Unknown Speaker 49:39

In other words, having defined itself as universal reason and absolute prospectivity, the interior of humanity against which all exterior others are compared and measured and found wanting Western European Empire and habits the expression of liberal sovereignty not only within Europe, but

Unknown Speaker 50:00

Throughout the post colonial world, this sovereignty is obsessed with security which Laurens Ralph has defined as, quote, both the nostalgic yearning for a previous era and the regulation and surveillance of bodies.

Unknown Speaker 50:16

This is because it's conquest cannibalism and and disavowal of exteriority is never seamless or complete. It's always potentially undone by that which fails to recognize it by that which refuses it in intentional and unconscious ways.

Unknown Speaker 50:38

In Jamaica, in fact, transformations of policing have typically occurred in response to instances of black rebellion. The first attempt to establish a permanent all Island police force was in 1832, the year following the general strikes organized by slaves that occurred during the Christmas holidays in 1831, ultimately developing into the Baptist or the largest slave rebellion in Jamaica that led to the abolition of slavery throughout the British West Indies. It was not until the 1865 Morro Bay rebellion, however, that the Jamaica Constabulary force the GCF was established. In October of that year, several hundred land starved black men and women marched to the courthouse in an Emerald Bay to protest their excruciating economic conditions. When the governor was made aware of the March, he sent troops to hunt down the protesters, over 400 bucks Jamaicans were directly killed by soldiers and additional 350 were arrested and later executed, and hundreds more were subjected to corporal punishment. local elected political representatives use the experience of grant Bay to vote themselves out of direct political participation, opting instead for crown colony rule, a form of governance by which British territories overseas exist directly under the authority of the crown.

Unknown Speaker 52:08

It should be but ultimately isn't shocking, that the fear of black Jamaicans acting politically in their own interest would prompt local elites to willingly give up representative politics. Nonetheless, Crown Colony rule held in Jamaica without significant constitutional change until 1944, the date that saw universal suffrage become law. As political parties were developing locally, there was some concern on the part of the colonial government that officers within the police forces were developing a degree of political partisanship that would influence the ways they carried out their policing duties. In fact, Jamaica was singled out within the West Indies as a place where officers should not be sent for instruction, because quote, earlier experiences have shown that they came away with a political consciousness and bias, which tends to prejudice and impartial performance of the duties required within a discipline police force and quote, and that's from the jCf archives.

Unknown Speaker 53:13

In the post independence period, the pattern of institutionalizing security in response to black Jamaicans expressions of discontent, and the emergent concern regarding partisan policing continued. The first joint police military operation emerged in response to the coral gardens instant incident, a series of events that took place over Easter weekend in 1963, during which a Rastafarian who was involved in a land dispute near the rose Hall Plantation, organized some of his friends to avenge the estate managers attempt to run him off the property he was cultivating. The Prime Minister capitalized on the paranoia regarding Rastafari at the time and send police from all over the island to Montego Bay, asking that civilians also join the police to hunt down every roster fire they could find. Hundreds were rounded up in jail and some were tortured at least eight were killed.

Unknown Speaker 54:12

This link between the police and the military eventually led to the development of a joint command system for use in emergencies. And the tidily incursion in 2010 was one such emergency. During the commission of inquiry that was convened to investigate the conduct of the security forces during this operation. former commissioner of police and Ellington reminded Jamaicans that the Jamaica Constabulary force the civil police force is organized and trained along military lines and this also contains paramilitary elements.

Unknown Speaker 54:49

After Jamaica's independence from Britain in 1962, the United States also took on a stronger role in the development and maintenance of the local police and military forces.

Unknown Speaker 55:01

By providing funds through the military assistance program, and by training and equipping personnel through the aid the USA ID safety program. between 1953 and 1969, the United States committed over $50 million in aid to the Jamaican security forces. And this amount likely does not account for total expenditures from the CIA and the DEA at that same period.

Unknown Speaker 55:28

As one pillar of Ronald Reagan's war on drugs and to promote more general bilateral cooperation with respect to drug and illegal arms trafficking, the government of Jamaica developed an extradition treaty with the United States government. This treaty, which went into effect in 1991, was the first within the Caribbean region and was technically bilateral. But as with other post Cold War, multilateral agreements, many in this region see this treaty not as a guarantor of reciprocity and equality between animal nations, but as another domain through which the United States is able to assert influence and to ignore the constitutional rights of Jamaicans and therefore, to engage in economic and political bullying.

Unknown Speaker 56:15

Today, some argue that we're turning toward a risk oriented secure security strategy of policing, one that is tied to agendas related to urban renewal itself a racialized project.

Unknown Speaker 56:28

central to this agenda is speculation, which requires a temporal shift toward a future oriented form of policing, geared toward preventing rather than solving crimes and toward mitigating loss over punishing wrongdoing and their underlying from Rivka Jaffe his work. This future orientation, like all shifts from disciplinary to bio political power also diminishes the level of engagement and quality of relationship between those in authority and those in community, in part because it's been accompanied by a turn toward intensified authoritarianism, and the militarization of policing through the current proliferation of states of emergency. In 2018. In Jamaica, prolonged states of emergency came into effect in the parishes of St. James, St. Catherine and Kingston. And by June of this year, states of emergency and zones of special operation are operative in nearly half of the country's 19 police divisions. zones of special operation or zones, as they're locally termed, constitute a new legislative designation in which extreme police powers are allowed in areas where there are, quote, reasonable grounds to believe that due to rampant criminality, gang warfare, escalating violence and murder and the and and the threat to the rule of law and public art are normal policing is not enough. In theory, zoso designation lasts for an initial 60 day period with the possibility of extension, and it's meant to entail some sort of focus on social and economic development alongside extraordinary policing.

Unknown Speaker 58:15

While there have been public discussions within the media about how and why sources and states of emergency now seem to regularly suspend normal police operation and thereby undermining civilian security, and while questions have been raised about how the government will transition back from extraordinary powers to normal policing as this is end, there's widespread popular support for these tactics in many spaces throughout Jamaica due to exhaustion and fear.

Unknown Speaker 58:46

The reliance on totalizing police actions like states of emergency have led many Jamaicans including those in diaspora to question whether the government has a comprehensive crime plan in December 2016, as one results of activism from the Jamaica diaspora Foundation, among other organizations, the US Congress passed Public Law 114 291, which is titled The United States Caribbean strategic engagement act. This law stipulates that the United States government can and should engage with governments civil society and the private sector throughout the Caribbean region to quote reduce levels of crime and violence. curb the trafficking of illicit drugs strengthen the rule of law and improve citizen security and quote,

Unknown Speaker 59:34

indeed, the Jamaican diaspora crime intervention and prevention task force, which is part of the Jamaican diaspora Foundation, has taken on a number of projects geared toward transnational cooperation in relation to security. They've championed cybersecurity, the development of an intelligence fusion center, a safer Cities Initiative and youth mentorship programs and in the view that, quote, The United

Unknown Speaker 1:00:00

states need stronger security cooperation with the region in order to detect, deter and deny support to terrorism, terrorist activities and encroachment by narco terrorists into the Caribbean and quote, The task force seeks to bring the expertise of Jamaicans living in diaspora to bear on security issues within Jamaica. toward this end, they're developing plans for engaged in ongoing collaboration with the security forces, the state and NGOs in Jamaica.

Unknown Speaker 1:00:31

We might read the efforts of the JDC IPT as an example of how transnational migrants have maintained their ties to their home loans. And through those ties have remained active participants in the range of discussions that affect Caribbean nationals wherever they're living. This is a view that positions Daya sport Jamaicans in a helping relationship to Nationals on the rock professionals to because of their professors distance from the partisan corruption and political violence that compromises both security and safety in Jamaica can offer their expertise and advice to transform the problem of crime. And alternative read would be that the diasporic crime intervention and prevention Task Force is enacting a version of what Savannah Shaun gay has called carceral progressivism. This is a progressivism that laments the quote systemic racism of the penal system only to call upon police as collaborators and protecting their vision of community.

Unknown Speaker 1:01:32

My own sense is that the JDC ipts activism is an attempt to make both the US and Jamaican states accountable to Jamaican citizens. But without tethering, this accountability to a more foundational rearrangement of the infrastructures that reproduce insecurity in the lives of poor black Jamaicans, even as they also champion local local development and mentorship initiatives. The diaspora foundation wants the state to work better, they want intelligence gathering and policing to be more cooperative, efficient and disinterested. The security they imagine does not therefore fundamentally rearrange the parameters of value placed upon black life, or the normative dimensions of partisan life that continue to shape electoral politics. This is also the case, when ordinary people defend the extraordinary measures characterized by states of emergency xo, SOS or other related programs. They're seeking an accountability that measures their value through the lens of the state.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:37

So when we think about the relation between the project of this of security and a desire for safety, we need to remember that while the former is imagined and enacted trends nationally and globally, but is nevertheless authorized through and in the name of the state, the ladder is grounded locally, and requires the intimacy of trusting relationships. analyzing this relation within a majority black post colonial context allows us to more obviously reframe the problems of legitimacy and accountability outside a dialectic, in which blackness signifies a contradiction within liberal democratic humanism. And instead in relation to an understanding that the violence is of native dispossession and African slavery are foundational to modern liberal political, economic and social organization globally.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:32

undoing this violence requires a formulation of accountability that resides outside of the normative parameters of perfectible governance, and an elaboration of sovereignty that is not rooted in the seizure of the state, but in nonlinear temporality, intimate care and non utility.

Unknown Speaker 1:03:53

Following the high profile deaths of black Jamaicans beginning in January of this year, and subsequent to the outrage expressed by Jamaicans across the class spectrum over the police killing of George Floyd, a number of columnist for The Gleaner, which is the daily newspaper, publicly opined about the value of black life in Jamaica. Daniel fleets, for example, crunched some comparative numbers, and argued the following. And this is a quote from one of the columns he wrote, If the police in the US killed proportionately the same number of people as the Jamaican police, they would have killed nearly 30,000 in 2013 instead of 1100. If the US police were to kill that Jamaica's rate during the period from 2014 to 2018, they would have killed around 65,000 more people. And if Jamaicans were killed at the rate that us blacks are killed by US law enforcement, there would be about 20 such deaths annually, which is roughly a seventh of those that have actually occurred in Jamaica.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:00

tweets and other commentators were pointing out that while it's important that middle class and upper class Jamaicans recognize the ongoing travesty of police violence against African Americans, they should not turn a blind eye to the same violence occurring in Jamaica.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:17

So I want to conclude by taking us back to our film screening and to the woman who asked what has Tivoli learned from the incursion. When she said this, she was not met with derision even though her rage was palpable. The Tivoli Gardens community residents who were also at the screening did not attempt to shout her down. Instead, the woman who, who had identified her nephew's burned body said there are good and bad within Tivoli like everywhere else. One of the youth who had described his experiences in the film stood up and sincerely thanked everyone for coming, especially all the Uptown people saying that he never would have thought so many people cared about what happened to me.

Unknown Speaker 1:05:59

And the longtime community activist responded gently. I think another way to ask that question is to wonder what Jamaica has learned from the incursion. Our film audience, in other words, was reckoning with how to generate safety from insecurity with the cyclical quotidiana two forms of violence that comprise complex relations of scale and our complicity with them. And with the ways their embodiments are marked by by their geographies.

Unknown Speaker 1:06:30

The security state, as a shield member argues, thrives on a state of insecurity itself a kind of passion or rather an effect a condition, even a force of design, fire and safety to is a kind of passion. And a safe world is one in which people feel connected to and cared for by others in there, I'm quoting from Steven, prison activist, one in which they have somebody not one in which quote, the police keep black and other marginalized people in check through threats of arrest, incarceration, violence, and death, and that's Marion Cava. If when people want safety, what they end up getting as security, then we need to cultivate different kinds of accountability. There are local models for this models that include the practice of reasoning amongst Rastafari and the community based problem solving of groups like sisteron Theatre collective or the violence prevention Alliance. These kinds of practices do not replicate the colonial love of governance, regulation and tutelage, but instead seek to generate mature responsible LOVE, LOVE WITH accountability, as Aisha Shahid ascendance has termed it is blackness in its negation of law and juridical norms, unsettles colonial sovereignty and it's after loads, then we must cultivate a sovereignty that is not merely oriented towards seizing the state, we must activate a sovereignty that engulfs rather than one that differs and disavows. And we must also claim a form of accountability that nullifies the normative relations that uphold being with a capital B as the ground of subjectivity, and governance, then Black Lives Matter in a Black Country, or anywhere. I'll leave it there.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:28

Thank you very much. They were

Unknown Speaker 1:08:31

okay. Yes, thank you. Thank you to both our speakers for these very thought roles and thought provoking

Unknown Speaker 1:08:40

presentations. We will, the q&a is now open for questions you can type your question in. I'm speaking to the audience now. And you can direct your question to either one, either one of the speakers or both of them.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:57

So while

Unknown Speaker 1:08:59

we're waiting for you to formulate your questions, let me see if anything's popping up. Question for both. Can you type your question, please? Arlene peasant passagen. Oh, sorry, I thought with bml the security have to look different than safety. And that's for both speakers.

Unknown Speaker 1:09:24

Anyone who wants to take it first?

Unknown Speaker 1:09:30

I can I can start I guess and then I'll pass it off to Brenda. Um, yes. I mean, I think the the the point that I was trying to make is that security and safety occur at sort of opposite ends of the continuum. Security is about the state. It's about policing. It's about regulation. It's about car serata team, right. It's about keeping the world safe for a particular kind of economic project.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:00

auction a particular kind of sociality, which is one that's built on the backs of violence, violence against African Americans and black people worldwide and violence against indigenous communities across the world as well. Right. So safety has to be something else. Safety is something that we develop through relationship and through dialogue and through community problem solving outside of the boundaries of policing, right. And so I do believe they require they, they come out of two different worldviews, and they require two different forms of action.

Unknown Speaker 1:10:43

I just add that I think the ways in which people look at Black revolutionary practices, is the notion of safety becomes very, very important, but it's safety with regard to home. And so it's not, it's, it's in some way to safety against policing forces, and the kinds of economic and political and cultural structures and institutions that rely on police to provide security, okay, for them.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:22

But it's also this notion that there will be a kind of communal appreciation of each other, that we will look at Black life as being valuable, that we will act as if Black life is valuable, and not just in relationship to the way in which security forces may interact with black people, but the ways in which black people interact with black people, as well. And so while there is an this desire to have a kind of,

Unknown Speaker 1:12:05

to have to really have a sense of community and, and that everyone is on the same page at the same spot.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:16

With regard to the black community and how we are treated and how we treat one another, there was recognition, as well that there was a diversity within black in the black community with regard to how we relate to the state, to security and to our own personal and familial and smaller community safety's.

Unknown Speaker 1:12:46

Okay, there's, we've got a number of questions in, I'm going to choose Rudy as a variable, because it's for both speakers, or any of the two speakers, man. So what are some ways that we can be allies with the Black Lives Matter movement in ways that are meaningful and not merely performative?

Unknown Speaker 1:13:12

Well, I think that the Black Lives Matter movement, um, they typically put up up, you know, on the websites, they pick, they put up many different ways in which you can

Unknown Speaker 1:13:22

be supportive. And so and I think that they realize that people have different things to bring to a revolutionary moment. And so they will provide lots of different opportunities for people to be invested in the movement. And they will. So that is available for you to do so. Now, there is a big debate, of course about ally ship and exactly what that means and how that happens. And whether or not it's mere performative versus something that is more meaningful to the person who is the ally to those people that you're trying to ally with. I think that, you know, we all have to start at the beginning, which is to look at our own consciousness to our look at our own conscience and decide, you know, whether or not we take on the basic

Unknown Speaker 1:14:20

philosophical ideals of Black Lives Matter movement, which, of course, is equality,

Unknown Speaker 1:14:28

broadly caste. And so I'll stop right there and see if Deborah has something to add.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:38

I mean, I think what so many organizations have asked for is that everybody looks at their own spaces, and identifies the ways that white privilege are perpetuated and violence against black people are perpetuated within their own spaces. You know, what about what are your What is your curriculum look like? If

Unknown Speaker 1:15:00

So what are your classes look like? What does your department look like what's going on in hiring decisions, etc, etc. Just, you know if academia is your scene, um, one of the things, one of the reasons that we made the film that we made four days in May, which in the longer version features narratives of people talking about their experiences during the Tivoli incursion, and also publicly naming and memorializing loved ones they lost, that was important to us, because there had not to that point yet, then a list of the dead released, there had not been an inquiry or even a motion toward an inquiry where there was an investigation of what had happened. And we felt that it was important for people to hear

Unknown Speaker 1:15:48

what happened, you know, because this community is like a Boogeyman. For so many people in Jamaica, they don't necessarily feel that people into the gardens have the same humanity as other Jamaicans because of the political partisanship and because of how strongly that community is associated with one of the political parties in particular, histories of violence, right. So it was important to us to create the conditions in how we filmed it, how we edited it, for people to really hear, you know, what people experienced, and

Unknown Speaker 1:16:31

and we wanted to do that in order to create the conditions for people to see to the gardens, residents as humans like themselves, and also ultimately, possibly, to think through their own complicity in the maintenance of this kind of political war. That creates a situation in which poor black people are fighting against each other for resources. What is it that you do in your day to day world in your day to day life in which you profit from this kind of political, what we have called tribal war, you know, that's a harder thing to assess whether that's happening or not. But ultimately, that's the aim, right? Because in order to recognize a situation is constantly and perpetually toxic, you have to see yourself as part of it. And then you have to act in a way that's different from supporting what that system and that's constantly So, I mean, I think people do that in very different ways.

Unknown Speaker 1:17:38

This from Fred daguan, thank you, both speakers for your clarity and many insights, how to gender and class figure in the killing of black people, by state agencies in the Caribbean. And at the hands of white supremacists here in the US? How do the arts figure in peace and love?

Unknown Speaker 1:17:59

And I think there's another question also about love and accounting from Gregory sparser. My question about love and accountability. And about police reform is for either speakers, and I think they're related. So I'm going to read both those because you can answer them together.

Unknown Speaker 1:18:21

Well, I'm not going to talk so much about Jamaica, because that's not my expertise. But I will say in terms of looking at gender, and, and class in the United States, and terms of the way in which people are victimized or become victimized, one of the lots of things do happen, one of the things I think we're all aware of is that people who tend to be marginalized economically, who are seen as poor are often seen as criminals, and are treated as such. And so this is an intersection or convergence not only up just clap, you know, but of race and class together on also gender. And while black men tend to be victimized very significantly black women do as well, particularly poor black women, and then poor black men, too. And so one of the things that we see happening is that there is a lot of focus on the black males who are victimized by policing agencies in the criminal justice system in general, but not so much of black females that this happens to him and we you know, of course, there's movement, hashtag, say her name, etc. But still, the emphasis is on males. And this is because we still live in a patriarchal society, and we still basically see things with regard to how male men are affected by versus men and women. But when we think about the ways in which women are impacted by racist, classist

Unknown Speaker 1:19:55

and also gendered abuses what we also have

Unknown Speaker 1:20:00

I see is that

Unknown Speaker 1:20:02

women are, again victimized because there is not focus on what happens to them. Okay, and women are expected, there's still an expectation that we will always lead off by talking about men. But that will become really the focus of our attention. And this is not just within the community, it's in the largest societies in the media is the way history is written, etc. And so we do see that,

Unknown Speaker 1:20:35

you know, race, gender, and class, of course, as well as generation, whether or not you're older, or whether you're younger, will, will have some impact on the ways in which you are treated. One of the things I think that African Americans historically think about in this country is that it hasn't mattered what class you were, to a certain extent, and so that, you know, have the famous examples of the, you know, the athletes, or the movie stars, or the, you know, the businessman or etc, who are also, you know, knocked down by the police or, you know, etc. And so, if we look at the long history, of course of African descendant people in this country, the ways in which the law has been imposed against, not as a protected but as a way to criminalize black people really hasn't

Unknown Speaker 1:21:31

mattered matter, whether your gender or whether or not your class, either. And so, you know, there are lots of, I think,

Unknown Speaker 1:21:42

the loss of layers to this environment, there are lots of layers to the ways in which black people are treated by the criminal justice system in the largest society and within the community, because the black community still tends also to be fairly patriarchal. And, you know, and with that, the focus, and I'm not saying Black Lives Matter are like that, because I don't think it is. But nonetheless, they have an audience, and they have a group of people who participate with them, where, you know, the male is centered, and the young male in particular.

Unknown Speaker 1:22:29

The only thing I would add, I guess, just picks up on something that Brenda said, which is the added violence of the event not being about the woman, but the event being about a more generalized violence. There were a number of during the quarantines, especially during the COVID, quarantines, there were a number of women who

Unknown Speaker 1:22:53

died or were killed by the police from really from, I guess, March to

Unknown Speaker 1:23:03

September this year in Jamaica, one of whom live in a community that is seen as being one of these communities that's always wracked by violence, right. And I'm in the aftermath of her killing when the political representative for that community went to the community to meet with the family and you know, do all of those things.

Unknown Speaker 1:23:27

The political representative to representative framed the death of the woman, Susan Bogle as a kind of casualty of abroad, broader war. So framed it like, well, if all of this violence weren't happening in August, tell him that's the name of the community where she was from, then she wouldn't have died. So it's a way to kind of blame. It's a familiar narrative of blaming the victim blaming the community for a debt that is actually attributable to police. And, you know, their story was that, you know, gunmen were running through the house, and they shot after the gunman and accidentally hit her and therefore, she was just a casualty rather than an event, a life an incident in her own right, right. And the family was very upset about that, because they felt that it

Unknown Speaker 1:24:21

sort of obliterated her subjectivity because it just framed her in this broader war, instead of seeing her death as an important death and the her life as an important life in and of itself.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:34

I just want to pick up on that, of course, that's exactly what people have been talking about with regard to beyond the Taylor, okay, that Brianna Taylor is killed is an accident is something that happened because they were, you know, trying to find her ex boyfriend who was a criminal. All right.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:52

Exactly. And so it became actually you know, her fault because why did she have a boyfriend who had been a criminal

Unknown Speaker 1:25:00

All right. And so, so that is exactly what I'm talking about. It's it's kind of focused on the male who was even who's absent, you know, he's not even there anymore. But the other thing too, one of the things that happens with black women and with black girls and young children to address sexual assaults, by policing agencies, the sexual assaults by policing agencies that don't get reported that don't get focused on that you don't read about in the newspapers, etc, which is always been, you know, sexual assault has always been a way of dehumanizing or destroying people, families, communities, and of course, the individual. And so when we talk about and we oftentimes will find, you know, one black males are sodomized, for example, by the police.

Unknown Speaker 1:25:51

We will,

Unknown Speaker 1:25:54

there'll be a lot of news coverage of that they will, you know, be lots of things that we hear, there'll be protests about as well, there should be okay, and people put in jail and etc, for that, but there are just hundreds and hundreds and thousands and thousands of women and girls who was sexually assaulted who are forcing to give sexual favors, etc, by the police. Um, and, and this is not something that, you know, that we publicly acknowledged that we publicly

Unknown Speaker 1:26:25

protest that we publicly work against, etc. So, and again, this is across class lines, m two is not just something that is going to

Unknown Speaker 1:26:39

affect very poor, marginalized people, although poor, Mashallah nice people economically and politically, because disfranchised also are really at the center of often what does happen across gender lines.

Unknown Speaker 1:26:57

I want to read the Gregory of spouse's entire question because I just sort of tagged it on at the end someone, how does love and accountability looked like in terms of what Black Lives Matter has in mind for a better future to work toward and to build upon? Is this a notion about how people will organize only after police reform and defunding.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:24

And so when I'm using that phrase, I'm really drawing from a shashinki to Simmons's formulation, right, and her her work on Child Sexual Abuse and Child Sexual assault. And what she is talking about when she uses that phrase, and she has a volume actually, that came out

Unknown Speaker 1:27:49

either earlier this year or last fall, also called love with accountability that includes many narratives, poetry, different writings about these issues. what she means when she used that uses that term is that love is not enough to create a political future, that in fact, we have to own up to the various forms of violence we perpetuate within our communities within our families. And that's the accountability that she's looking for at the most intimate level of the household, the families face to the broadest meta level of the, you know, the political scene elections, etc, etc. So she's really trying to identify a process through which we examine the ways we are complicit in the perpetuation of the forms of violence into which we have entered in the United States, in Jamaica all over the world, right? If we understand white supremacy to be global,

Unknown Speaker 1:28:56

and that we then seek to

Unknown Speaker 1:29:01

account for these ways in which we have perpetuated or participated in these forms of violence in order to do something different. And, you know, she's found this incredibly important in terms of her own healing and her own coming to terms with child sexual abuse. But of course, it's not limited to that context. So that's, that's what I mean when I say, accountability. And it means, you know, accounting for the patriarchy within, you know, black social movements, revolutionary movements, etc. Not just that, but that's one of the things

Unknown Speaker 1:29:37

I think that for, for many people who are associated with black revolutionary movements or just, you know, change in black life change, that love really means respect. You know, it means equality. I mean, it's not a romantic love. It's not a you know, idealistic love and so it is a love of people being

Unknown Speaker 1:30:00

The same as you, okay, if you could approach a black person with the same kind of intense sense of this person having dreams, having a family, having a life that's worthwhile that for black people, is the love that we need, that's the love. Because once you can do that, and you can then place yourself within the shoes within the spirit within the mindset, the perspective of that particular person, and there isn't this huge divide between them. And me. And so, you know, the

Unknown Speaker 1:30:44

reduction of that divide is what brings you closer to a kind of love that black people, um, that all people need to have towards other people. In order to accept them, it's the kind of acceptance versus them love, but I do want to, for a moment, get back to this question about art. Okay, because, you know, Professor Thomas has shown us are wonderful film. And, and we're both involved in in art curaytor ships and, and production and all of that. And, you know, it's racism, and classism and sexism and all the isms that caused the kinds of problems that Black Lives Matter and other movements have tried to address it, those problems emerge out of a kind of

Unknown Speaker 1:31:42

denial of realities of a kind of blind sightedness with regard to what our world is all about. And, and that blindness is, um, it's instilled in us, we're socialized towards it, from the moment of that we can recognize what's going on around us, or even before even before that, and so art, the media, um, you know, what we see what we hear whether or not we're in an art space, you know, over watching a billboard, or watching TV or whatever, plays a huge role, and socializing us to the other two people outside of us outside of our household outside of our family outside of our church, community, mosque, whatever, okay. And in order for us, this void between them and us to shrink, we know the kinds of socializations that we have been repeatedly, I'm

Unknown Speaker 1:32:45

victimized by her being a part of a been drawn into have to be, they have to interact with a different kind of so socialization, a different kind of vision, a different kind of sound, you know, and so I think art is key, as are all other aspects of our lives, we have to invest in changing that narrative, and changing that vision. And changing that perspective. And art is a magnificent way to contribute to that change.

Unknown Speaker 1:33:28

Oh, sorry, sorry. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. And I was just asking a question that kind of follows up on that. But if you'd like to add to what Brenda said, I was just gonna say the only thing I would add is that, um,

Unknown Speaker 1:33:44

you know, I came into academia, very haphazardly and very circuitous Lee and I had been a professional dancer for many years before I ended up

Unknown Speaker 1:33:56

in grad school. And I think art also is like, how we get free, you know, it's like, anybody who is a dancer knows that, at some point, everything comes together, the music, the movement, the sight of others, you know, and you actually are transported to a different plane. And I think once you have that experience, you want to always have that experience, because he knows what it feels like, you know, and I think on you know, I agree with Professor Stevens and everything that you said about the power of art to really hit people viscerally effectively help them to come to a different kind of understanding of the situation, then they wouldn't necessarily come to by reading a text or something like that. But I think also internally for us, it also allows us to reach that, that other plane, you know, not every day, not all the time, but enough to make you keep looking for it whatsoever.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:00

If you look at the ways in which black people across time have resisted, you know, our expression, you know, dance music dress,

Unknown Speaker 1:35:08

you know, speech, all of that gardening, you know, it's all been, you know, a way of not only gaining freedom, you know, just freeing ourselves from what, what Obama, what bondages we have, but also of, you know, expressing who we are internally expressing not allowing, you know, every form of oppression to erase what we are internally, expression, artistically speaks that even when we are silenced in other ways.

Unknown Speaker 1:35:43

So tineo Warren asks, do you think Jamaicans or the Caribbean community as a whole will get to a place of acknowledging, exploring and addressing anti blackness in a majority black space?

Unknown Speaker 1:36:00

Um, you know, I think historically, there have been many, many reckonings and coming to terms with that, it's just not always framed in that language. The ideology in Jamaica is, you know, we don't have that American racial problem, you know, for us, it's not a race, it's class, you know, but then, people don't say that, of course, classes racialized, and the same people who are poor are also darker, you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:36:30

or are working the kinds of jobs that a middle class person wouldn't want to work, or are the ones called upon at elections to fight against each other. So obviously, as was said, earlier, these are intersectional categories of, of being, and it's a it's that

Unknown Speaker 1:36:51

that amalgamation of

Unknown Speaker 1:36:54

racialized classes and gendered forms of oppression are not unique to the United States or Brazil or South Africa, or, you know, but they are, in fact, global. It's just that, you know, many people are socialized into thinking something else, you know, is thinking that something else is more important. And part of that is to sort of resist the kind of hegemony of the United States, I think, and also to resist an experience that many people have

Unknown Speaker 1:37:27

middle class people often, you know, when they migrate to the United States, and perhaps find out that they're black, you know, for the first time in a way that they never experienced in Jamaica, and I think that's, you know, an eye opener for people, and either they reject it, or they embrace it and try to learn something about it. But every movement of the 20th century, and of course, far before that,

Unknown Speaker 1:37:53

has been a movement attempting to get people to come to terms with anti black racism in The Guardian as well. Garvey ism roster, Fri, no, these are all movements that explicitly condemn anti black violence in the terms of racism, but they're not often formed. Now, they're not often thought about in that way. And so sometimes

Unknown Speaker 1:38:22

the the racial force of the argumentation is lost, as, as instead, people are

Unknown Speaker 1:38:31

kind of enveloped into sort of revolutionary, you know, oh, Jamaicans you know, we're very rebellious and revolutionary, and change things, etc, etc. But in fact, they were calling out, you know, these same individuals were calling out racism in their own society, and we're vilified for it. We're persecuted for it. We're deported for it, right?

Unknown Speaker 1:38:55

This is a question from Andrew, actor for Brenda. Given that the Black Panther Party was originally founded for self defense, why is it so rarely referenced or invoked by the Black Lives Matter movement?

Unknown Speaker 1:39:11

Well, I'm not certain what certain I'm not certain why the Black Lives movement doesn't call the Black Panther Party or have their agenda, which was actually you know, all their points of reference and what they were hoping to improve is really, you know, beautiful and, you know, we're dealing with improving the community from the community outward. For example, I think that the Black Lives Matter movement, like many movements that deal with you know, black, like, revolution, are somewhat reticent to talk about self defense because black revolutionary movements are almost always criminalized, almost always thought as being a threat to society of being dangerous, gun toting

Unknown Speaker 1:40:00

You know, etc. And the notion that you align yourself with the Black Panther Party, which is still it plays out in the imagination of many people as being a violent organization that, you know, that was criminalized, etc. People tend to feel like that will even Mark me even more as being, you know, not only revolutionary, but revolutionary, equal criminal, revolutionary, equal dangerous, a threat to larger society. And I also think that a lot of people don't understand the Black Power movement as being a movement that was inclusive, a lot of people think about the Black Power movement as being something that was exclusive, but there was a lot of cooperation between the, you know, the Black Panther movement, so it's a power but the Black Panther movement, and other, you know, freedom movements at the time, you know, anti war movement, for example, peace, movement, etc. So, um, a lot of people still think of it as just being very isolated, and being very focused on a particular place. The same for I might say about the gardens and a lot of people still think of the Garvey movement in that way, that it was very exclusive and not inclusive, and, and all of that. And so when in a time, when, you know, people have decided that revolution means ally ship, it means inclusiveness, inclusive inclusivity if you're not clear on your history, and you really don't know what the reality of these organizations were, and what their mandates were, and their agendas were, etc, you again, you were influenced by the mythologies about, you know, black revolutionary practices, and those organizations associated with it. So even the most astute and well meaning, organizations may decide that that's too much baggage for us. Okay. I'm not saying this is what Black Lives Matters, think. But I know that other organizations have felt this way, how felt, you know, the gharbi ism represented something that was anti Dubois, for example, anti NAACP, or Urban League, or whatever, and the Black Panthers represent something that was anti Martin Luther King, or the snake or, you know, other comes out saying, um, you know, etc. So that's what I would offer Professor after, but that's, um, they're made, they're sure there's much more to it than that.

Unknown Speaker 1:42:40

Um, so since I guess you mentioned sort of Coalition's I'm going to ask this question from Abraham, at anon, there are many non black leaders who understand and advocate for the course of BLM, what would be the best way to bring the non black powerful voices and personalities to form a powerful coalition?

Unknown Speaker 1:43:09

Well, I think that, you know, we look at coalition building, have lots of examples of it, you know, if you go back, as I said, to the abolitionist movement, if you go, you know, it was a rights movement as well, I think that in both of these movements, what the black people involved wanted, indeed, to have allies and to build coalitions, but they also wanted to set the agenda, okay. as, you know, feeling as you know, and rightfully so that these, this movement is particularly to impact, positive move, or positively my life, the life of black people.

Unknown Speaker 1:43:46

You know, we really understand what needs to happen, we really need, we really understand,

Unknown Speaker 1:43:53

you know, what kinds of sacrifices other people, you know, have to be made and those kinds of things. And so I think people really want to have allies, should people really want to have collaboration with other people. But I think oftentimes, people who have initiated the movement who are at the center of that movement, I mean, the movement is going to impact their lives. So substantially, they also want to have control over that movement. And a lot of times there is a sense for is it was in the civil rights movement, for example, and the abolitionist movement, that when other people get involved, that the agenda gets shifted, you know, and the kinds of ways in which people other people approach

Unknown Speaker 1:44:37

you know, getting to this point that doesn't feel as if it is the correct way to move that's too much compromised is too much. You know, that has to be given up and, and you shift the focus away from what are the basic desires of the group that's mostly impacted by the wrong

Unknown Speaker 1:45:00

As we're approaching six o'clock, Robin and Jorge, do we have time for one more question?

Unknown Speaker 1:45:07

Yes. One One more. Yeah. Jenny, I would say yeah, one question. Okay. Let we'll make it the last question. It's an interesting one. It's talking about the current moment in time. And this is from Havana, J. Anderson. I'm interested in how race as an effective force is also operating in the moment moment in Jamaican America to securitize space. For example, people in the garrison are thought to be disobedient and unwilling to follow social distancing rules. Just last week, dozens and dozens of non compliant people were rounded up and thrown into vans without any protection. How do you see the casserole and atomizing statute strategies of social distancing extending the reach of state violence? If so, I would love to hear from both speakers.

Unknown Speaker 1:46:01

Well, I think that in the United States, there's been some focus in the media with regard to the ways in which black people have been treated in

Unknown Speaker 1:46:11

communities that have considered that a poor, for example, with regard to COVID-19 regulations. And so as usual, there's a lot more surveillance, there's a lot more stopping of these people questioning of people in these communities, arresting the people, citations for these people, etc. So I think that when we see the kinds of biases, the kinds of biases that you see in the law, in general, with regard to surveillance and criminality,

Unknown Speaker 1:46:42

and incarceration, you see being played out in the ways in which COVID regulations are being designed and enforced. And so I think if we were to look at four, and I think the New York Times actually had an article that did look to a certain extent, on the percentages of people being stopped, and, you know, and given citations, etc, that they were, you know, the large numbers of persons were people of color versus, you know, people who were Caucasian or European descent, etc. So, I can say that in the United States, you know, there's been a lot of focus on as usual, what are black people doing or not doing correctly, or letting next people there's also this notion that, you know, of course, the black people and Latina x people are driving the, after it was focused so much on people of Asian descent, and Chinese people in particular,

Unknown Speaker 1:47:42

that this was their disease, then it became that Oh, black people on the team x people, and indigenous people are dying at higher rates, because they won't do what's correct. They are, you know, living in either if they're being around each other, they're staying in crowded houses, they are not washing their hands. And so this whole notion that people of color that marginalized people spread disease are diseased, are unhealthy, also plays into the ways in which and are just not going to follow the rules, you know, have played, I think, into the ways in which people of color have been approached and secured in cobit. 19.

Unknown Speaker 1:48:32

Yeah, I'm tied to vontae. Good to see you, or not seeing you, but it's good to hear from you. Um, yeah, you answered your own question. Really? Um, you know, and I guess what I would add to what has just been said is that it is it is akin to any other phenomenon of containments in Jamaica, that if middle class or elite Jamaicans are doing it, they're doing it in their homes and privately, and if poor or working class Jamaicans are doing it, they're doing it publicly, and because they're doing it publicly, they're more susceptible to being incarcerated for it in whatever way that incarceration happens, right? So whatever the, whatever the deviant behavior is, whether it's flouting a curfew, or it's something else, that scene is outside the boundaries of respectable citizenship. It's it's not that these these things don't happen across class, as you know, it's that among upper classes, it's privatized. And it's happening in full view of everybody downtown. And you know, we see that also obviously, and you know, who is more affected by storms, for example, this week, what's happening with landslides downtown versus how beautiful looks from you know, the hills. So I think those are

Unknown Speaker 1:50:00

Those

Unknown Speaker 1:50:02

those distinctions play out in every kind of phenomenon. And you know, COVID is just one of many of us in that regard.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:17

Do y'all go ahead? Do you want to do a one question more? Or we wrap up here? Well, I think we should. Should I wish we could all informally assemble? I know that there were some questions having to do with where to find the films and things I think you made. Did you answer it in the chat, Deborah, because I was looking forward to the question disappeared from shareen. Asking, you know, where your film was available. And that was where I use shows book was available.

Unknown Speaker 1:50:52

Okay. And

Unknown Speaker 1:50:55

you Yeah, I think we've we've kind of I noticed people are leaving. I Yeah. Do you want to should I say the farewell you?

Unknown Speaker 1:51:06

Well,

Unknown Speaker 1:51:08

first of all, though, from roving me, thank you so much. No, Brenda, they Bora. And Janie, no, was a fantastic panel. No. And we are very happy now with so many people to follow when they say the stock. So thank you so much. Robin.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:29

Grab mute rolling.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:32

Thank you, it was an incredibly incredible start to, you know, a long conversation we'll be having the whole year, and it will be available on the International Institute website for those of you who had to miss part of it.

Unknown Speaker 1:51:46

Robin, did you want to talk about the programming that's coming? Um, yeah. Well, we have there's a enormous number of talks coming up, that are that represent various corners of the world. So I urge you to take a look at the International Institute website.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:02

Because we've got just a lot going on. There's just so many I can't even mention them all. But there is a very exciting series, I urge you to take a look. Thanks, Brent. There are the there will be a on November. No. A talk on racial capitalism. No, comparing No. The Pacific and the Atlantic. No. And there will be an I want to highlight this. No, a event at the Latin American Institute organized by the Center for Brazilian studies on black lives matter in Brazil. Now. That I think now it should. Interesting everybody.

Unknown Speaker 1:52:41

Yeah, really interesting. Well, I want to thank the organizers, thank our speakers. And thank you for inviting me and thank the audience because without you and your questions on participation, in even in this sort of restricted remote form, this event would not have been possible. So thank you to everyone for making this so successful. Thank you, Jenny. Thank you so much.

Unknown Speaker 1:53:08

Thank you, everybody. Good night.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai