Migranthood: Youth in a New Era of Deportation

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Okay, well, we get started.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Hi everybody. Welcome. My name is Clara data I'm faculty at UC San Diego and political science and CO director of UCSD center for competitive immigration studies.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: And along with our colleagues at UCLA CSM it's our pleasure to welcome today, Professor Lauren hi Brink.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Associate Professor in human development at Cal State University. Long Beach Dr Heidrick is a cultural anthropologist who works on childhood and migration in Central America.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: And the book. She's presenting today is entitled my parenthood youth in a new era of deportation. It examines the development of indigenous Guatemalan youth after they are deported from the US and Mexico.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Her discussing is dr settles is an MD PhD at UC Berkeley and UCSF, but currently spending the year at the Institute for Advanced Studies in mass. A France.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Also a cultural anthropologist. He's worked on social hierarchies and asymmetries in the context of migration and healthcare.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: I want to say this is our last CCI yes yes I am book talk of the quarter we will

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Stop for break and then we'll resume in the new year with the talk by David NASA on the last million Europe's displaced persons from World War Two. Cold War On January 8 with our very own David Fitzgerald as discuss it.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: We will also hold in the winter quarter a joint emerging scholars workshop starting January 15 and it will be featuring new work on migration from a variety of disciplines from new scholars

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Claire Adida, UCSD: And it will be alternating every Friday between this workshop Conference and the seminar talks so we're very excited for a very productive which a quarter as well.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: But for today, we'll, we'll hear from Professor hybrid and then from Professor home so as your hybrid will present first

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Then Professor holes will be discussing it for about 10 minutes. If you have any comments or questions, please put them either in the chat or Q AMP. A and we will get to those after that. Thank you.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Great, thanks so much for the introduction. Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for taking the time to be here today.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I wanted to thank the organizers from both UCSD and UCLA for UCLA, for inviting me to present on my new book migrant hood and I present to you today from Southern California on land stolen from the tongue but people who are the traditional caretakers of tongue bar.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Now migrant hood is an extension of my ongoing commitments to the Guatemalan community that actually began long before I became an anthropologist

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So in the late 1990s, early 2000s. I worked at a torture treatment center in Chicago, where many Central Americans were escaping brutal conflicts.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And we're seeking asylum and I came to work with community organizers and former gorillas trade unionist journalists university students

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): indigenous leaders who are targeted for their efforts to oust the US military dictatorship that had terrorized their families and we're was tearing apart their communities.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And now 20 years later and migrant hood I examine the insidious and intergenerational effects of this historical violence and it's contemporary manifestations on their children and grandchildren in post conflict with the mother.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So both the Obama and the Trump administration's have variously claimed that migration of Central American children has slowed considerably since 2014

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Now, the Obama administration and largely attributed an apparent 2015 declined to an influx of development aid through the Alliance for prosperity plan ATP.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And this is the centerpiece of US foreign policy towards Central America.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Alternatively, the Trump administration attributed the apparent 2017 decrease to enhance border enforcement and his virulent anti immigrant rhetoric.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But despite these claims the number of children migrating actually has not fallen it's risen. And so with the initiation of the southern border program in 2014

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Which is a US funded securitisation effort to enhance Mexican immigration enforcement.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The number of children deported from the US decrease temporarily while the number of children interdicted in and deported from Mexico skyrocketed.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so given that we're seeing a proliferation of border external ization policies worldwide mythologically, I thought it was important to approach the study of migration.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And deportation regionally, as you see depicted in this graph. So when we actually look at the data across the US Mexico and Central America child migration is on the rise. They're just not reaching the US.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so in 2014 and 2018 as you may remember headlines of every major news outlet cover the seemingly surprising arrival of 10s of thousands of young migrants.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And immigration policy course that I taught at the time my students and I conducted a discourse analysis of the media policy and nonprofit accounts.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Of child migration, both in the US and in Mexico and we transform this analysis into a website I co ed it with an anthropologist Michelle stats.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And called us circulations in which each of these little squares are curated galleries.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Of images from news media and advocacy communications portraying young people typically as simple victims of gangs organized crime.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Or other unscrupulous state actors or they're depicted as young people perpetrators in the making.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so these often partial accounts are consequential they paint the entire nations, and indeed the entire region as vicious and ungovernable

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): They often pathologies parents of my grandchildren as naive an educated negligent or with nefarious motives and they focus on interpersonal violence within families or between gangs and the youth into conscript

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so many policymakers and pundits also continue to dismiss children as migrants in search of economic opportunities or on account of receiving a pit missile

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Or to take advantage of the few but important protections under the Trafficking Victims Protection Reauthorization Act, the TV era, which you may have heard of

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It. These depictions are disconnected from what young people and their families, both in the US and and get them on over telling me about

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The reasons compelling their migration, how they and their families made decisions and what happened falling forced return. And so as a researcher, I wanted to learn firsthand from young people who is ice it our experts by experience.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so I started by identifying from where Central Americans young Central Americans originate and publicly available data documents that over the last 15 years Guatemalans are consistently.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The largest group of unaccompanied children and families apprehended in the US and they're also disproportionately deported from the US and Mexico in comparison to their hundred and Salvadoran counterparts.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And here I've mapped out data from a foil to to the Department of Homeland Security on the municipalities of origin aggregated by department.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In Guatemala unaccompanied children apprehended in the US, over the last 10 years now. There's some blips in the data. But what we learn is that

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Children originally primarily from the Department of Guatemala, Guatemala City is based, and this is the most densely populated area of the country.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But also they consistently migrate from the western Highlands, which are home to majority indigenous communities. And while less populated.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): They are both higher absolute number of and relative to the departmental population of children migrating on a company from the US FROM THE HIGHLANDS. And so this is where I'm I based my my research. What you see here and read

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And and since 2013 when I started this research and in every year since Guatemalan authorities have variously estimated that anywhere between 70 to 95% of Child Migrants are indigenous primarily mom and Keith J.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And indigenous people represent about 60% of the total population.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So yet in the US indigenous people are racialized is Latinx there homogenized by policymakers and only rarely do we hear about indigenous identity and discussions of interpreter access

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In immigration courts and so that's I think the indigenous identity of Guatemalan youth remains largely obscured, but as I argue in this book. Central to discussions of migration.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Now, violence is often the primary reason attributed to out migration. So I wanted to look at the homicide rates by municipality over the same period of time. So this is the same map.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): unaccompanied children apprehended in the US Department of origin, but when you look at data from the police Ian su and LCD, the police, the National Police

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): What I'm all about 37% of the homicides and the Department of Guatemala is also home to miss Chico, which is a suburb notorious for for gang violence and bloody shootouts with authorities and you have a sweet law, but then cheeky moolah is

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Generally speaking, when you compare the homicide rates or even the violent crime rates.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): With communities of origin, it doesn't appear appear that they relate to the or that correlate to the outmigration of children.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so I want to be clear, this doesn't negate that insecurity and violence exists in Guatemala MS 13 and the body of the essential gangs continues to control large swaths of the country, particularly in the in

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Guatemala City demanding payments from business owners bus drivers and even schoolchildren and the country has the highest rates.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Of extortion rates in comparison to its Central American neighbors, and yet the spectacular forms of violence exists alongside less visible but no less impactful structural violence.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so an undertaking this mixed methods research, particularly as a privileged white US citizen academic was important to me that this research, not just be community based but be community driven

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Deeply inclusive of young people collaborative with indigenous healers leaders community collectives and researchers and importantly longitudinal so I started this work in 2013 and the book covers until about 2018 early 2019

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And I'm happy in the Q AMP. A to talk about how members of the community guided this research from conception to implementation to analysis and the various kind of multi lingual

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And multi modal forms of dissemination that ultimately attempted to return the research to the community. So to give you just some visuals of what this research look like

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): A typical anthropologist these participant observation and informal interviews on the Guatemala City military base where I observe 17 different DHS chartered flights and the orientation that adults and children received upon arrival the Guatemalan Air Force Base,

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): At government facilities. There are two for unaccompanied children. And how about them on authorities administratively processed children.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And since I began to research in 2013 I was able to observe how the staff attempted to keep pace with increasing deportations under the southern border program.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In zones of transit and southern Mexico giving young people often multiple experiences of deportation from a goal and at the customers need to get on a there's one in Guatemala City and one in Chula

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Where people from around the globe follow similar migratory patterns, not just Central Americans.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And that that logically. I also thought it was important to recognize the diversity of young migrants experiences, including those who never arrived, or our screen is ineligible to remain in the US.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And in my prior research within us federal facilities for unaccompanied children. I had observed how social and legal services.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Were prioritize two young children and to those who had viable claims for the few forms of legal relief.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Available to children. And in the book I examine how young people and less diverse and interrelated forms of movement, including seasonal overall turban and back.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Regional and increasingly increasingly transnational migration and how they circulate through time and space with great flexibility increasing uncertainty and in multiple directions.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And then of course in communities of return over time. And of all the people that that I worked with I followed 50 young people over a three year period, they're at their age ranges are 13 to 17

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Including their experiences of detention deportation reintegration and often read migration.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And it was in this context also worked in partnerships with indigenous collectives and teachers to conduct multimedia solicitation workshops of youth.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): On public media campaigns circulating at the time that we're attempting to the church migration. So young people have have a lot to say.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And then lastly, along with a multi disciplinary team of really gifted and thoughtful researchers we conducted a collaborative community driven survey in Al milonga which is a town.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In the Western Highlands lot it as a model of a globalized the grain based economy that provides an alternative to migration get as we found about 19% of young people migrate trans nationally and about 18% migrate regionally.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so migrant hood examines how are in the book migrant good example migrated to socially constructed practiced and experienced in these diverse spaces places and perspectives.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Now discourses of migrant HOOD ARE circulate through the law media institutional practices humanitarian interventions there so ubiquitous that they're rarely interrogated or challenged

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): If these ideas of migrant hood fail to consider how young people in the meeting into their own mobility and into their lives beyond their experiences of migration.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And when the medium policymakers acknowledging people's migratory experiences, their perspectives are often overshadowed by the advocates who claim to speak on them on their behalf.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So in contrast migrant hood chronicles young people's long term trajectories of migration and deportation from their own perspectives. So I want to highlight what I think are some of the key arguments of the book.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And when I first sent out to understand young people's experiences of removal. I found I needed to better understand the meetings they assigned to their mobility, rather than how those empower assign meaning to it.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So 16 year old Ignacio who had been recently departed from Mexico explained that at nine years old. He began a company is uncles and cousins to southern Mexico.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And sitting next to his father and uncle and the family courtyard. He described

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): At first it was an adventure, a way to escape school, I remember sleeping on the floor at the camp and tending the chickens with another boy man when

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): We fed them every morning and clean up the barracks washed swept made beds.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Occasionally, a man would tell us to sort seeds. And I remember my fingers hurt, but I didn't stop because I wanted to contribute, they bled and cramped up they hurt for days, still do, but I got used to it. I can't complain mo sexual this they see empty. We have always done this.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so you can young as six or seven described migrating to labor camps, principally in chef us will hack on a cruise in southern Mexico.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And initially children may company parents extended family fellow community members as helpers, as we see with Ignacio

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Typically in coffee plantations and they described learning the bus routes save crossing points over time developing relationships with Foreman who might later hire them.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Now older youth described migrating seasonally to the Pacific coast of what the model to harvest sugarcane on large plantations and these were some of the very same migratory patterns that Ignacio Ignacio his father and his uncle described to their childhoods.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): For Sonia, a key chain youth of 13 she volunteered to migrate to the US in support of her family.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Her father died in a bus accident. Three years prior, and her mother was facing complications from untreated diabetes.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): With an older brother already living outside of Atlanta Sonia was the eldest child remaining what the Mullah and she described. I know it will be hard, but I must go. I'm preparing myself, my mind.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): My body. We don't have the conditions for survival. Here, my family needs me. I must go.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): To Sonia and her family were well aware of the dangers of regular migration yet. Soon as commitment to her family remained her most salient motivation decision. Her mother openly grieved but tacitly supported as the only alternative to financial survival.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So indigenous youth and their families. Recognize transnational migration is highly susceptible to failure and undertaken at great cost.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Most youth and their families, discuss the decision to migrate collectively waiting for example the agent earning potential of youth over older adults.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Their Spanish language ability of a child necessary to negotiate migration through Mexico and to navigate everyday life. Upon arrival

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The child's moral character amid the temptations of alcohol, drugs, sex and consumerism often associated with the US.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And a child's agenda and given the stark realities of sexual abuse and rape that place girls at increased risk

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Most often they're not always young people identify a decision to migrate as a gesture of their families trust in them to provide for their families as a collective investment in their future, or as a long held promise to reunite and alerting

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So in the book I contend that child migration among indigenous youth is a cultural elaboration of care and which migrant hood is at once, contextual and relational

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Contextual and that their migration is steeped in a long and ongoing history of violence and displacement during the colonial period.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The plantation economy with them allowed a 36 year armed conflict and current development violence.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The context continues to influence the ways young people are socialized into interrelated forms of migrations rural to urban seasonal regional and increasingly transnational

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And it's a historically rooted strategy to ensure the survival of multi generational households and as Ignacio had explained. We have always done this.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So to young people understand their migrant hood as relational and that young people speak of migration is both a social value and an economic necessity among my family's

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In a cultural context that values and depends upon their contributions to households and communities they unless paid labor Unpaid care work.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And their mobility to fulfill their social and familial obligations as they come of age to start their own partnerships businesses are households.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): To overcome familial indebtedness, and to navigate everyday prosperity in the face of systemic discrimination.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so in addition to these historical and cultural meanings of migrant hood. The book delves into how development violence is displacing indigenous communities and spring and people to migrate.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so here I want to share two examples of the varied scales of the silence from what one go do and also from the DC area and other impacts of return.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So one

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Is from acute a community in San Marcos in Highlands and he explains

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The Guatemalan government treats us like we don't belong, even on the lands of our ancestors and blocks us at every turn, bad schools, no work, no metal care medical care.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): They treat us like India susilo sturdy Indians while they robbed gold from under lands.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Believe me, I never wanted to migrate I'd heard the stories from my cousin, but I had no choice.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): My mother and sister got sick. The mind contaminated water and spoiled our crops they call it the soil development, but it's not developing our communities. It's devastating them. They are killing us slowly.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So under the guise of development, Captain Dr brought a boon of extractive mega projects to Guatemala, such as multinational mining hydroelectric plant logging petroleum extraction

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): An African palm production, but it hasn't delivered on its development promises. Rather, it's destroyed economic resources and led to environmental degradation of largely indigenous lands.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Take mining for example mining profits have increased at 10% annually get these profits aren't distributed to the communities that bear the brunt of the, the consequences.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Of diverted and contaminated groundwater and your multinational minds in San Marcos, where one go to lives community members report increased rates of asthma infant mortality cancer and lower life expectancy in comparison to the national average.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): We also see land rushes among sugar cane and African palm producers, which plunder communities and increase increasingly have driven subsistence corn farmers out of work in an attempt to say associate us in European demands for biofuel.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Natural disasters like the recent tropical storm at the end hurricane iOS.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): As well as earthquakes and drought are also on the rise of the results of climate change impacting agriculture production and the need to migrate for survival.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so this deliberate depletion, or as SaaS gives us and calls it, loss of habitat spurs migration of young people like one good idea to meet the everyday needs of food, employment and healthcare.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And over time, these cumulative harms have dire material consequences on people's lives, even if not immediately visible.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So, in such a context. One guy videos deportation compounds. The causes of his migration as he is returned to it devastated community and yet the causes of migration remain individualized rather than as crises that are historical systemic policy made

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And here I think discussions of indigenous maybe are critically important to understanding the ways colonial domination, your liberal capitalism and securitized approaches to migration management.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Disproportionately impact indigenous peoples over time and the erasers of indigenous at and discussions of migration is yet another form of racialized violence inflicted upon indigenous communities.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): As it negates the discrimination and violence they encounter in Central America and Mexico in the US and falling return

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And while there's a growing attention to how extractive mega projects and climate change, lead to displacement and these are realities that indigenous communities have longed announced

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): less attention has been paid to smaller scale neoliberal development initiatives such as the micro finance industry which likewise displaces indigenous communities at alarming rates.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So Letizia from Quetzaltenango illustrates she says it was unexpected. My father died in a car accident. My mother left was left with the four of us to care for alone.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): We sold the few things that remained in the house. The bed the dresser, the stove or we be listened to the traditional blouses.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So we could pay for the funeral. We still do not have enough so we mortgage the house we buried my father, but not even properly and we took the rest of pay for my passage

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I'm the second daughter, my sister did not want to go, but I didn't.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I wanted to support my family to help my mother to send my little brothers to school. I was scared. Though worried about getting raped, but I knew I must go. I figured it's better to die trying than to die here not able to contribute.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It didn't go as planned. I was caught and returned three times the debt was heavy, we could not pay it off the bank took her home and the land underneath it. That was three years ago.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Now we live in my uncle's home we lost everything. Our Father, our home my reputation. My sister. So she will try and God willing, she will find better luck.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So mom and Keith J families historically have relied upon communal and kinship networks to navigate poverty and instability.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In amid the cumulative policy inflicted harms. I mentioned previously, these networks have been debilitated

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So to navigate structural violence and everyday for clarity, it produces families now turn to borrowing from local money lenders just I missed us notaries attorneys and increasingly banks cooperatives and evangelical churches to survive.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The Guatemalan government simultaneously has privatized and deregulated the financial industry leading little oversight of the terms and monitoring of loans.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And enhancing the potential for overindebtedness and corruption.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so as we found in our community survey and I'm along about 36% of families seek loans to invest in businesses or to respond to short term means and 77% of borrowers utilize land as collateral.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So the terms of the loan. They have interest rates about 10 to 50% APR. And there's such that they can quickly cascade into Insurmountable Debt serviceable only with us level wages.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So what results as a cycle, particularly under kind of the securitization of migration where deportation is

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Has been increasing, you have the cycle of migration and deportation. Each attempts compounding the conditions that instigated migration, while at the same time, enhancing the vulnerability of migrants by compelling them to travel.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Along less secure routes and since indigenous families, rather than individuals typically assume this debt, the effects of this debt seep into intimate familial relationships with lasting impacts on young people's well being and sense of community belonging

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Now micro finance has been the darling of the development industry as it's predicated on the belief that credit facilitates financial inclusion of the poor and alleviates that conditions spring migration.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It touts the transformative potential of personal advancement progress with the expansion of harvest businesses and consumer power.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And it currently is the focus of considerable foreign investment build is creating alternatives to migration, particularly for young people.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And yet, as we found in practice it actually reinforces and deepen social inequality and it's displacing indigenous families from their ancestral lands.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So rather than addressing the systemic failure of the state to provide for basic social welfare or to curb extracted the extractive industry.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): micro finance once again individualized has responsibility for overcoming poverty marginalization and climate change and in a context of coven and in the aftermath of any other defaulting on debts have become all the more common.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So I just want to pause just to add that debt is not always negative or exclusively financial so many youth view migration debt as a form of blogging or trust and investment.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): A social obligation that buying some to their families and Dennis is a form relation ality is debt in practice binds migrant youth to a wider community.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And within this complex context deportation has reverberating and long lasting impacts on young people, their families and their communities.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Deportation is not a singular act or a stage of migration along a linear trajectory is some of the emergent post deportation literature suggests

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): As is include team reminds us. It's an ongoing multi directional process. One that begins with the reasons why a young person migrates and extends well beyond their physical return

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): criminalized by government bureaucrats and often ostracized by their communities and even their families youth return

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): To institutionalized racism and government facilities limited support services and considerable stigma in spite of the growing prevalence of deportation and stunningly one in 10 Guatemalans have been deported.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Over the last decade and young people described removal as a company by feelings of shame, guilt stigma and at times they disappear into their homes for many weeks even months.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Because of this, this feeling of shame and it likewise ripples through households, it brings immediate and often devastating material consequences, including restricted access to shelter and food and health care.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And it leads families to default on debt risking the loss of their ancestral lands and these lands are young people's inheritance, on which to build a home or to start a family.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so it was adolescence transitioning into adulthood, the rupture of deportation relegate Sam people to extended periods of weight hood limit ality

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Waiting to get married to have children to advance socially or financially.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So, Rodrigo I met him. He's 15 years old at the time I met him in a government facility following his deportation about them. Allah

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And he said, I'm ashamed. They caught me we mortgaged our land. My family dependent on me to work hard and to support, but now this. So in practice. So I'm a failure. I don't know what to do.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And when I saw him. A year later, with his family in San Marcos Rodrigo mumbled I'm worse now I can't make enough to survive. I mean, I want to help my family to work but earning $50 a day selling empanadas

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Or growing info, or even selling in the market. It doesn't make a difference. I failed. I know I failed.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I will make it right. I will

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And like Rodrigo 60% of deported youth in the study. Either they or their siblings be migrated

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so while policymakers and development experts have been launching reintegration programs for deported youth reintegration for indigenous youth presumes integration in the first place.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So indigenous communities and post conflict with the Mullah continue to be expelled systematically from all areas of social and political life, and this includes the labor market.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Public education, healthcare development initiatives and political participation.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And rather than acknowledge the deep historical of violence and racism that undergirds this marginalization indigenous youth and their families or are left to navigate the consequences of deportation on the road.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Youth, however, are not passive victims and social actors, they negotiate legal processes institutional actors social

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Dynamics cultural transitions citizenship laws gender norms and identity politics all bound up and their experiences following deportation.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): They're cared by and caregivers of intergenerational families, the social indebtedness that you've experienced towards their family through their care and their migration.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): bolsters they're important position within expansive kinship communal and ethnic networks.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): they enlist a wide range of tactics and techniques to facilitate integration of their parents, their siblings or even themselves following deportation.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And to mitigate the profound material and psychological impacts resulting from removal

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The nurture relationships with parents deepened bonds with siblings and extended family they build rapport with new peer groups or mentors.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Some rediscover their indigenous identities. Learn ancestral cultural practices and develop linguistic knowledge they survive adapt rebuild their lives reintegrate and carry on, even in difficult circumstances not have their own choosing.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so the reasons young people site for their migration to have a future to get ahead to look forward or instantly bound up in meetings assigned to ingenuity and migrant hood over time and space.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And towards the end of my multi year fieldwork and collaboration with a community library and I can be into small group of 12 TJ us, many of whom had been deported themselves were siblings of those who've been deported.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And I asked the group to describe what it meant to have the right to not migrate. This is something that that young people have been talking about, or to have a future in Guatemala.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And in quick succession, they shared a future without suffering that our parents and grandparents endured

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): This is my home, and I have to make the best of what I have. There's so much richness and I don't want to leave. Even when it gets difficult. It's a swim you're familiar

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It's the possibility of dreaming and that these creative and even resilient experiences exist alongside often in spite of the constraints imposed by deportation.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I think deserves more scholarly and political attention and these insights are particularly critical and that's what the mala has entered a period of mass social protest spurred by egregious government corruption.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And really in depth responses to both coven and recent natural disasters.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so I think only by sustaining our attention to the everyday struggles and triumphs of young people over time, but we begin to recognize young people's contributions, not just on a national but also a global scale. Thank you.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Claire. We can't hear you.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Sorry about that. Thank you so much. Now let's talk to Dr. Holmes for comments.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Great.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Thank you for inviting me to this event. And if you haven't read it, I highly recommend this book, which relates a lot to the event today.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: So I want to say three aspects that I found especially helpful and unique and then I want to make two challenges. And then I want to ask three questions.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: So the three aspects that I find especially helpful and unique first is a focus on migrant youth, including multiple groups that are often not written about in my current studies including the

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: J gotta switch such a goddess, the people who arrived in the US you arrive in Guatemala and Latin America as defective deportees who follow their parents when their parents are deported, even though they themselves are US citizens.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Many of the

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: experiences and perspectives of the children and youth that we read about in the book are not written about in most immigration studies and migration studies. And I think that's really helpful.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: I also think the focus on families and the ways in which families care for each other across borders falls into this focus on Youth and Families that I find helpful.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Professor hide Brink also deconstructs youth and childhood through their own experiences and perspectives in a way that I think is really helpful showing diversity and

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Complication as opposed to one kind of childhood or what childhood means there's a quote on page one of three. And I think it's daily at

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Who talks about being in detention and says it's like they couldn't decide if we were babies needing to be burped or someone who couldn't be trusted.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And there's something that we hear throughout the book from the differential during and youth is that they're both treated like these innocent children.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Who have no agency no decision making power who don't contribute to their families who need to be cared for and are completely dependent

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And then at other moments. They are the preemptive suspects to Lynn Stephen writes about the people who are always untrustworthy suspicious and hearing that from the youth themselves. I find really helpful.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Professor had bring also highlights the ways in which children and youth are caregivers and contributors to family, the ways in which migrant hood itself.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: As the experience of migration is a relational about the ways in which care is both intergenerational and transporter so that many children who are characterized as an accompanied are very much not a company there.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: With whether physically or not many people from their families and communities.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: She also highlights the ways in which children and youth navigate the in the ways in which their agents and part of what I found helpful in reading from the youth.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: In this book, some of the things that they say is that there is this look at agency as involving both voluntary and involuntary realities at the same time.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Which reminds me, in some ways of Lauren Berliner or Saba muck mood and other people who've written about agency in a complicated way in the last few years stuttering agency, the ways in which

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: We find in the book. People are showing that human being beings sometimes experienced themselves as agents who are active and doing things in the world, and sometimes experienced being overwhelmed or depressed and that's all part of the diversity and reality of

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Their experience.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: The second thing I found really helpful in this book partially as someone who works with indigenous immigrants from Latin America is the focus on indigenous it

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Specifically, the focus also on histories of colonialism displacement from land discrimination both interpersonal and at the policy level and exploitation of labor.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: The newer phase of also securitization and the name of development, the ways in which especially leaders in the United States have talked about engaging in economic economic development and social development of Latin America to help Latin Americans but

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Professor hydrate looks through where their money actually went and what is actually doing, which in many cases is different forms of securitization and policing and surveillance and limitation of options that actually plays into

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Some of the reasons that people had to migrate in the first place.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: One quote that I found helpful related to this was on page 172 just as the US border is moving, moving south through Mexico with programs like the southern border program.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Guatemalan authorities are ensnared in US efforts to externalize borders and Professor Hedren contextualize is this also with

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Europe's external ization of borders to Turkey etc and calls the crisis that was a media crisis in the United States around unaccompanied minors arriving

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: As policy generated over generations, which I think is a helpful phrase for us to keep in mind. At the same time, she focuses on the Cosmo vision.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: That paradigm in which many indigenous people live in, in which the people she works with live when the veer the good life that involves interconnection and balance.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And the ways in which, especially in the last two chapters indigenous youth.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Are developing counter identities to the ways that they're identified by the media and politicians and the ways in which they find pride in aspects of their ancestry in themselves that they're told not to be proud of that they should be ashamed of.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: The third thing that I found helpful and unique

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Were Professor head brings methods so very impressive multi layered methods doing research in places that lots of people have not been able to go unless they were forced to go or worked there.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: But also spending a lot of time with us also doing this really interesting participatory and collaborative research with youth with teachers with organizations, seeing youth as experts by themselves.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Pre challenge would be

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: The, I would say that the youth that you write about our X have expertise by experience but not only by experience.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: They have expertise by experience by analysis by learning by fear ization that they're doing as youth as indigenous people as migrants and through practice and activism and organizing. There are lots of ways in which they are experts.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: The to challenge. So those are the three things I find especially helpful. The two challenges are

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: One is thinking through the framework of decolonization and Eve tuck.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: has stated that decolonization should not be a metaphor and should not be focused just on the mind or on the way we think about things, but also needs to be

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Also needs to involve concrete actions land transfers like kind of be more literal in the sense of the word.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And one challenge would be to think about what does that mean in relation to maybe, especially your last chapter where you're making

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Conclusions. The second challenge would be I encourage you to look for ways for this book to come out in Spanish.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Because I think it would be great for people in Guatemala, more people in Guatemala and in the US have access to it and one publisher that focuses on Indigenous Studies in Latin America, you probably know is IBM yella and I wonder if they might be interested

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And then I have three questions.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: So one of the strengths of the book is that you pay attention to and share young people's experiences and perspectives.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Keith way Lou historian at Princeton says that books are like children that we raised them to be the best kids, they can be we take them to piano lessons and we

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Take them to soccer practice and we get them tutors, so they'll be the best book that they could possibly be when they grow up.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And then after we publish them, they go out into the world and do all kinds of things. And some of the things we hear about. We're proud of some of the things we hear about that they did. We're not proud of and many of the things they do we have no idea.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: So one question is if your book could do one thing in the world, what would you most want your book to do

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: I wonder if there are specific policies are specific things you you wish this book could go do

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: The second question is, what else might your book inadvertently do every once in a while, I found myself thinking, especially in the first few chapters.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: I don't and I do this when I'm writing to. I was thinking what would one of the CBP. The Customs and Border Patrol strategists who are trying to develop campaigns to keep people from coming, what would they take away from this you know

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Not it's so I'm always thinking about that when I'm reading, like, what, what are all different kinds of people going to do with this.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And then the third question is partially just of my own personal interest. I'm working with, and actually had a couple phone calls today with

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: A group of four indigenous well Hakeem immigrant high schoolers in California. We're working on a documentary film together. And it's been a super interesting complicated process to work together and interact across differences have access to internet and computers and phones and

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: As we're working on this project together, but the last question is, where would you like anthropology to go in the future in terms of methods, maybe in terms of participation, collaboration, you know, where would you like it to go. What do you think could change so

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Thank you for the opportunity to read the book.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Okay, thanks so much for these comments.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So maybe I'll just respond to a couple of them. And then we can open it up to any of the questions.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So actually, this morning I was reviewing the Spanish translation of the book Unum swimsuit is going to publish it and they're going to publish it open access

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so, kind of going through and making sure there's Guatemalan Spanish represented in the text as well. So I'm excited about that. And you know I think ultimately it is about returning research to the community in various communities. So, you know, I talked about in the talk.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The kind of multi modal ways in which we're trying to make sure that that knowledge returns to the community, from which it originated. I think, you know, anthropology, particular has this very

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Long and extracted as history of taking and not returning. And so in this work. It's played out in terms of doing radio spots or kind of collaborative group analysis.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It's been multilingual and teach a Spanish and English reports informants blogs, with some of the research team on on you circulations I have a

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Kind of visual piece, hopefully coming out with American anthropologist and thinking about, again, I think, speaking to your, to your last point about how anthropology and how this research can reach broader audiences in ways that you know that our

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Firewalls behind you know academic journals and membership fees. And so really trying to both have this research reach different and diverse audiences, but also

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The really important research and contributions of Guatemalan scholars and indigenous elders who are doing this work as well, but just don't have access because of the English language printing world and academic world.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I think that the question of

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Kind of that not a question of

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): What are the implications of the book. This book, and what can be taken in context or out of context. Certainly something

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): At the forefront of my mind. It was something that even in my my previous book that looked at young people's experiences within Office of refugee resettlement detention facilities.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): One of the staff members had had mentioned very early on, he said, you'd be careful what you write because it's going to be used against the children that were trying to serve.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And I think that that that's very true in the research I'm doing now that there are some things that I didn't write about, because it's not one. It's not my knowledge to write about.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But because I thought it could very, very easily be taken out of context. And I think it's one of the complications and the challenges of doing

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Applied or policy oriented work right when I'm standing before the State Department and giving them a briefing on child migration.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): What if I say it's, you know, there's not violence in the way that you think that there's violence.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): That has direct implications on young people who are seeking asylum or on football and seeking asylum. And so it's something that

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I think brings a lot of really important conversations and challenge and ethical quandary. You know what I think it's analogous to scholars who are writing affidavits expert witness affidavits and immigration court now we're engaging in a very violent process.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Trying to

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Support people and seeking asylum and what are the implications of our participation in that process to so I I definitely think about these these things a lot. I know that there's a lot of

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Scholars who are engaged in this this public work as well. Um, and then maybe I'll just end kind of with your analogy that books are like children.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): You know, I think, really, it's

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The audience. I kind of as I imagine it is a really kind of broad interdisciplinary audience. It's the immigration attorney who's representing their client.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Who doesn't even know that indigenous people exist in Guatemala. It's the teachers, right, that are receiving and supporting young people as they enter into schools for, you know, the first time in the US who don't know

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Kind of what their experiences are or or know that history and want to learn and then it's also, you know, I think really trying to push us to

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Look at what we can learn when we take children. Seriously, that, you know, whether it's social actors or political actors or experts by experience, right, that, that there is

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): We as adults don't know everything right. We still have a lot to learn from young people, so maybe I'll stop there.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Well, thank you so much for this really engaging discussion. So we have quite a few fascinating questions from the chat and the q AMP. A so I

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Actually wanted to interject use my my privilege here as moderator. I have a question that I wanted to start us off with which is you use quotes from

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Both young men and women. And I wonder if there was a gendered aspect to this. You could imagine that

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Maybe the girls are more likely to to go because they may feel that they have less to contribute at home or maybe the boys are more likely to go because the journey is perceived to be dangerous. And there's some gendered expectations there.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Can you speak a little bit about that.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Sure, absolutely. Yeah, you know it's it's complex. Right. There's, there's a lot of diversity of experiences. And so I think for

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): from Guatemala. It's about 65 70% of young migrants are male.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so part of the migration is this kind of performance of masculinity of being able to provide for and to care for to start a household to build a family to build a business to become to become someone

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): As they talk. So I think kind of discussions of masculinity are often overlooked when we're talking about migrants.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Because we have these other tropes of, you know, the simple victims or or the delinquent right masculinity is understood as as violent or a risk, particularly in in kind of thinking about children or young people who who are being recruited into gangs or gang members themselves.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But masculinity plays out in different ways in communities. Right, so it's not there. There's certainly gendered care and which girls and young women are providing a lot more of the kind of domestic labor and caregiving labor, but boys are doing it too. Right. And so these ideas of

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): A kind of a binary of gender. Just don't apply. And a lot of families. Right. It's very fluid. It's different understandings of gender and gender expectations.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And, you know, then you have experiences of girls, you know, in some ways, I think, migration and kind of the

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The places in which they can work upon arrival, you know, maybe they are working in homes or they're providing care work.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): For older siblings or aunts and uncles or extended family who are working. And then there are providing for for their, you know, young nieces and nephews or younger siblings.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so girls are seeing is is valued in that way and the care what they provide upon arrival, but but there's absolutely a recognition

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Of the gender violence in route you know young girls talk about getting what they call an anti Mexico shot right a birth control injection to stop their cycle so that if they do get raped.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): They don't have baby smugglers, as they call them. And so you know they're they're very much aware of their families are very much aware of this violence. That doesn't mean that boys don't, aren't you know victim to these these violent and the silence as well. But then you have

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Men who say, well, it's easier for women. Right. They can migrate, they can pay with their bodies, you know, paying through sex or through

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Through posh prostituting themselves, you know, it's easier for them. And so there are still these kind of gender stereotypes and and

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Ways in which men and boys understand the migration of girls and girls understand it very differently, right, that there's risks that you have to prepare yourself in your body and and these are the realities that you can front if you do indeed migrate.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Thank you. There's a couple of questions more on the on the methodology part of the book from Arielle Barnes.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Who is also preparing to do research in Guatemala, having some trouble accessing publicly available data. Could you speak a little bit about

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Access the your folio process or accessing this kind of sensitive data and then also speak to on your focus on children and how you decided to focus on the 13 to 18 age range.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Yeah, absolutely. I take persistence. I think from my experience working in and doing research in federal facilities for unaccompanied children in the US.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I think I would you know applied for for you every, every week, right, and just kind of tweaked it slightly and and got to know the people in the office who are responsible for responding to those prayer requests.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so I think you know persistence and follow up and you know I think it just takes a lot of time and there's some willful neglect, I think.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In providing certain types of information. So for example, the information of the communities of origin, where young people originate.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): That's something I've been asking for, for five years and even folks from or is it. Oh, it doesn't exist. It's not on our, on our forums, but I know when I've seen it on the forum. I know that exists.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): For my prior research. So I think just being being consistent being specific and getting help from folks who do it all the time reporters are are great as well at doing the voices.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In terms of the age range. There's a few reasons. One, you know, the average age or the, yeah. The average age of a young person migrating from Guatemala 14 and a half. And this is a kind of critical moments.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In which young people are finishing the equivalent of six or seventh grade, and oftentimes when they, when they stopped going to school when they start thinking about, you know, their own household around families. This kind of coming of age period was really important

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And you know the other kind of element of it is that, particularly because I'm not exclusively, focusing on unaccompanied children, but it is a legal category.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In which those that are under the age of 18 so the young people that I worked with were under the age of 18 at the time is there deportation. So it doesn't necessarily mean that they weren't deported as adults but me, or it doesn't mean that they

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): When I was talking with them. It was, you know, they could be 18 1920 if you're following people over multiple years and it has as their lives unfold. But at the moment of deportation. They were

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Under the age of 18 in part because their process differently, what the Mullah adults are process one way and children, since kind of the early 2000s of process differently. So these are kind of a different process.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And then they're certainly kind of ethical issues and talking to young people under the age of 13, you know, a lot of the work I did was based in families, even though

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Kind of focus was on was on a young person and So Young people are part of these families these younger siblings and they're part of the motivations.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): For their migration, but typically the very young children are migrating and families. And so you see more of this kind of older team migrating

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): What would be another company that basically just means they're not in the Karen custody of a parent or legal guardian doesn't mean that they're alone. It just means that that at the time. They're apprehended. They're not with a parent.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Or. Next question is from David very less john

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Claire Adida, UCSD: And so thank you for the work you're doing your work speaks to many disciplines as an educator. I wonder if you can speak to some of sorry as an educator. I wonder if you can speak to some of the implications of your findings to the Guatemalan and US educational system.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Thanks for your question, David. Um, yeah. So I think that there are. There's actually a lot of really great work being done in

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Schools in the US within indigenous Guatemalans

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It might not be written up yet, but in practice it's happening all over. And I think in part, you know, when children are apprehended and

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In the US, and then eventually released very, very few get follow up services, you know, back when I was doing research in in these facilities, about one and a half percent of children released

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): From federal custody got follow up services. And so these responses and kind of the ongoing needs of young people are flying to school districts

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And to teachers and school counselors, you know, and I'm hopeful that the book in its various manifestations can just help to provide some context historical context cultural context.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): To teachers and to school leadership that are providing the services, whether it's through you know English language acquisition or whether it's through kind of newcomer centers.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And to move away from this idea, this deficit based approach. You know, I think that that in some of my research indigenous youth are cast as

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Stupid or as developmentally delayed because they don't speak Spanish.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And that's not to say that, you know, they

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Sorry, I'm going to plug in my computer. Real quick, hold on.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Sorry about that. I saw the battery flash. Um, so I think that there's a lot of richness and experience and knowledge and

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): That young people offer that they they bring with them that they're embedded in these really rich

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Cultural networks that have really long histories and to see that as an asset, rather than a deficit and so just take a very simple example. The idea of debt.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Is that their teachers and lawyers and folks in the US that may see that debt as

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): A form of parental abuse, right, how could your parent harness you with this much that. Why do you have to pay for it and work out. You should forget the debt.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): You focus on your education. These are things that I've heard over and over again.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But young people view their, their migratory debt in a different context right there. It ties them to their community. There's meaning and it's an investment in them.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It's an obligation, they have to their families that the even the thought of not paying down this debt.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It's not just their word. It's the word of their family. And so I think trying to understand

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And and not make these assumptions is really important to providing the, the type of support that young people need

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And then in the context of what the mana. You know I I write about it in one of the chapters that Seth had mentioned in terms of US citizens that are de facto deported.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And kind of the challenges of getting documents about the mala of navigating a new and different school system with different resources different you know pedagogical approaches.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so, you know, I think that there's not actually not a lot of research on on that topic. I think more so in Mexico, we see some really important research and best practices.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But I'm hopeful that there is kind of a group of education scholars and and graduate students who would would take that up because I think it's really a critical area, given the prevalence of deportation from the US.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Thanks. I wanted to jump to a couple questions that were in the chat that I think go together and speak to Seth's point about it. So, so what are the implications of

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Of the book. So we have a question from Yahoo is excellent presentation and excellent review would appreciate your thoughts on implications and policy development and then also from my second team.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Who writes, we do participatory research with vulnerable populations, bringing their experiences and complex reality to the academic world. But what is next. How do we turn this amazing academic work to action to create positive change in the lives of the participants.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Those are really great questions and they're things that I'm constantly thinking about and and I you know I think again as a privileged white US citizen academic

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): The only way I see forward is is doing these important doing this kind of policy development and

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Work in collaboration right with indigenous collectives with communities with young people themselves. And one of the points I make in the book.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Particularly as I try to engage with policymakers and you know present to us a ID saying this is the policy you are pushing and this is the reality of what happens right

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And, you know, just trying to make sure that young people have a seat at the table right that their perspectives are being

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Listened to that the knowledge that they have is being respected and considered, you know, I think the my, my biggest hope is to try to bypass. Some of the violence that is inflicted upon communities, whether it's, you know, through deportation, or these development initiatives.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): To tall order.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But I think, you know, working in partnerships with organizations that are in collectives that are doing this work and using my privilege to try to create avenues for dissemination of information for meetings for, you know, fundraising.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): You know, an example of this recently with Kobe and not being able to travel there was a collective that I work with, and

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In response to Kobe it and what the mala the governments of the many things that hasn't has not done was to shut down all the local markets and either largely indigenous

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): markets where people get their produce. And there's a lot of food insecurity with them, Allah

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But the government allowed these large grocery stores to stay open right the super Nicole's the the Walmart's and the community organizations that I'm working with said, you know, this is a form of oppression, right, this is a way to

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Erase the knowledge that is shared and circulated within these markets. It's a way to starve us and and to

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Basically to kill us right it's by shutting down our markets, our way, our way of life. And so we were able to do

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01:01:15.390 --> 01:01:29.310

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): We started with a GoFundMe we earned about $1,000 and then we were able to scale it up with some some grant and grant writing that we did collaboratively across teaching English in Spanish. So it was an interesting process.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And get some some funding to create sanitation processes to create a marketing campaign to work with leaders of a couple of different markets.

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01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:55.470

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And actually just two days ago we reopened, one of the the community markets in Shoreline in the highlands. And so I think thinking about kind of using the these relationships and working collectively and collaboratively.

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01:01:57.030 --> 01:02:01.740

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): To push push forward right and it could be as simple as

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01:02:02.640 --> 01:02:13.590

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): You know, opening these markets and in these markets. The, the young deportees were leading it right. They are the ones that are doing the signs and the sanitation stations and and so it was a way in which

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Young people are contributing back to their communities are working against stigma of deportees there's evaluation of indigenous knowledge.

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01:02:21.390 --> 01:02:36.270

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And they're working collaboratively in developing relationships. And so I think if we can think about these types of application processes which may or may not be valued in academia. I think it should be. But I think is, is one way to kind of move forward.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In centering and people's experiences.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: So next question is from Susan Cochin who says, I'm sorry if I mispronounced

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Thank you for your book. Could you talk about the title migrant hood. Sounds like a state of being. But perhaps also a place. Could you say more about this and did the young people with whom you work develop this title.

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01:03:01.470 --> 01:03:15.300

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Do you think three for your, your comment and question, Susan. Um, yeah. So migrant hood is, you know, it's kind of a combination of kind of migration and childhood in the ways that childhood is culturally and socially constructed

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so there were a few people in my research that he mentioned me get on through that. But in the context of

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01:03:24.510 --> 01:03:37.770

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I am more than my migrant hood, right, like I am more than my experiences of migration and I think migration studies, we have a mobility bias, right, we're focusing on people that are moving. And so I think part of it was, how can we look at this kind of

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01:03:38.820 --> 01:03:52.290

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Imaginary of migration and and young people specific experiences of migration can impact young people, even if they've never migrated. Right, so maybe it's the siblings. Maybe it's just these ideas of migration that are circulating through

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): These nonprofit accounts are through education systems through public policies.

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01:03:58.080 --> 01:04:08.190

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But also to recognize the ways in which it's socially constructed and it's not young people should not be reduced, just to their experiences of migrant hood, but they're they're rich

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01:04:08.640 --> 01:04:14.730

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And expansive lives beyond that. And so that kind of was the, the idea behind that and looking at how its

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01:04:15.780 --> 01:04:26.370

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): constructed from a political lens from a social lens from a cultural lens and then how what young people think of it themselves. And so in the second chapter of the book. I think it's the second chapter

396

01:04:27.630 --> 01:04:41.370

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): There was a public service campaign that was funded by Customs and Border Patrol. That was circulating at the time and in 2014 and it involved PSA is it involved radio spots, they

397

01:04:43.290 --> 01:04:57.750

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Had songs or posters billboards and it was everywhere. And it was making all of these assumptions about young people's experiences of migration of being sense of not knowing the dangers, so that one of the campaign's was called the know the facts.

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01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:10.440

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And the other was dangerous awareness campaign. And so we sat down with young people and show them some of these images and some of these videos and played some of the songs. What do you think about this.

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01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:17.880

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And what are your, your perspectives and your ideas about migrant hood and I think they really readily kind of identified that this

400

01:05:18.150 --> 01:05:23.820

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): There's this disconnect between their lived experiences in the ways that that others. You know those empower

401

01:05:24.540 --> 01:05:39.810

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Those outside of what the Mullah those that were not indigenous understood their microphone and assign meaning to it. And so I think really trying to, to look at the kind of how it how it gets constructed, but also how young people understand it was something that was really important

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01:05:43.980 --> 01:05:51.810

Claire Adida, UCSD: Our next question is from Philly Beauvoir, who writes. Thank you. This has been a very moving presentation on a high stakes subject.

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01:05:52.320 --> 01:05:58.080

Claire Adida, UCSD: Could you please expand how the disruption or trauma of migration detention and deportation.

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01:05:58.470 --> 01:06:10.890

Claire Adida, UCSD: Impact lead, lead in organization versus ethnic revitalization processes and how this might be gendered. It would be interesting to know. Also if Dr holes Mexican indigenous youth are impacted similarly or differently.

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01:06:16.740 --> 01:06:17.730

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Great, thank you for that.

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01:06:19.320 --> 01:06:21.300

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): That question. You know, I think that

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01:06:24.030 --> 01:06:31.860

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I'm not sure I'm gonna be able to fully answer that in the sense that much of my research has been focused focused on the experiences of indigenous youth.

408

01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:39.630

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Of deportation. So I haven't worked as extensively with those that are Latino are identified is non indigenous

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01:06:40.470 --> 01:06:56.070

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In weapon Allah and also having worked in the western Highlands, which is more kind of tends to be more rural areas, rather than as much in the capital city where experiences that young people talk about are are very different. There's a lot of overlap but very different

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01:06:57.540 --> 01:07:03.270

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so I think part of it is, I think, begins with understanding, as I mentioned how young people.

411

01:07:04.110 --> 01:07:18.390

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): assign meaning to their migration and so to really understand the kind of psychological trauma, the material consequences. The long term impacts of deportation. We have to understand the stakes right in the meanings, the meanings of their migration. So

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01:07:19.530 --> 01:07:25.650

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): So that I think is a big part of it. And I think, you know, one, there's a few folks that I have

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01:07:26.640 --> 01:07:32.010

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Some of the ancestral authorities that i've been i've interviewed have talked about how migration is a way to

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01:07:32.700 --> 01:07:46.980

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Further diminish or attacker inflict violence on the indigenous community in one of the in the community survey that we did. It was interesting in that very, very few people identified positive

415

01:07:48.180 --> 01:07:59.070

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Impacts of migration that extended beyond the individual family right and so they didn't see that as positive, right, maybe you can get a truck. Maybe you can buy some land, maybe you can build your house, but there's no benefit.

416

01:08:00.000 --> 01:08:08.850

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In fact, you see family dissolution and you see alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. You know, people that basically disappear.

417

01:08:10.350 --> 01:08:16.950

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): willingly or unwillingly. And so, so they had a fundamentally different idea of what

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01:08:17.760 --> 01:08:30.780

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): What migration meant and what development means and that you know. Yeah, that's great for that one person, but it doesn't benefit the collective right. So understanding that development has to benefit the collective community. And so I think

419

01:08:32.430 --> 01:08:40.230

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): One could argue that if you're looking at this kind of lead you don't ization of migration even deportation is a move away from that kind of collective

420

01:08:40.650 --> 01:08:47.970

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Understanding of of migration of deportation, the consequences resulting from it. So you might look at the individual

421

01:08:48.570 --> 01:08:56.490

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But rather, it has these rippling kind of impacts, not only on the community, but then also on cultural and social values, you know, young people are contending with all these different messages of

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01:08:56.880 --> 01:09:07.350

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Globalization and consumerism and, you know, then they have their families that are talking about kind of the values of their my ancestry. And so they're contending with a lot

423

01:09:09.120 --> 01:09:11.430

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so, you know, I think that

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01:09:13.350 --> 01:09:19.320

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I think looking at young people's experiences kind of put them at the the crux of these of these two things.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but maybe I'll just stop there.

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01:09:26.370 --> 01:09:35.370

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: One thing I think about with some of the youth. I work with who are indigenous from Waka tricky people

427

01:09:37.710 --> 01:09:47.310

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Is that they're the way that they understand themselves, the way that they identify changes. I can think of a time when one of the youth.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Because of what was popular in his high school where he lives in California.

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01:09:55.980 --> 01:10:02.730

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And to some degree in Haka he got Mexican Eagle tattooed on his hand.

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01:10:04.140 --> 01:10:12.270

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Which isn't something that the tricky. People would normally care about the kind of Mexican sort of national ego.

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01:10:13.500 --> 01:10:31.470

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: But that was something that he he was in even there was one moment when we went together with a couple of few of his cousins to visit his grandparents, and we'll walk out for the first time and when we cross the border into Mexico, he said something like, now I feel Mexican

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And there's a way that the identity of being Mexican

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: In certain ways happens to tricky youth as they are identified as Mexican in the United States.

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Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And to some degree when they go back and visit, although after he after we spent time in the village that his parents grew up in, in the pilot that his parents grew up in the little town.

435

01:11:00.330 --> 01:11:05.700

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Then he kind of shifted and talk spoke more about being

436

01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:09.240

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: A he said in an Indian in India.

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01:11:10.500 --> 01:11:19.470

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And the places you know the schools in that Pueblo in town and will Hawkeye are supposedly

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01:11:20.310 --> 01:11:34.920

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: multilingual schools that speak that teach Spanish and 3D to the youth, but none of the teachers in the school actually speak the indigenous language. So the, the calling it a bilingual education is a complete farce.

439

01:11:35.970 --> 01:11:45.660

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: I have seen in Fresno, a couple of programs that the central Venus you now has organized that are teaching youth and their parents.

440

01:11:46.230 --> 01:11:54.300

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Their indigenous languages and they're letting other people come to learn that indigenous language. I think they're teaching me stuck. All right, now in Fresno to school.

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01:11:55.410 --> 01:12:04.740

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: Which then helps the youth and their parents see kind of experience that yes, this is a language. And it's worth speaking. And it's worth learning

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01:12:04.950 --> 01:12:13.350

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And then there are a few other people from their school who come and then they also kind of see how other people want to learn this language. So in certain ways. The

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01:12:16.140 --> 01:12:26.250

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: It's complicated. And I don't know yet exactly what's happening with the youth who I work with, but some of them are coming to identify more as kind of the dino or Mexican

444

01:12:27.870 --> 01:12:32.820

Seth Holmes, UC Berkeley: And some of them are focusing more on their indigenous streets with time and experiences.

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01:12:34.200 --> 01:12:42.390

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): You know, as you're mentioning that Seth and one of the things that I think about and that you know I write about a little bit in the book is, is the kind of

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01:12:42.750 --> 01:12:52.320

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): reclaiming and re conceptualization of and when we beat my descent indigenous concept of good living and these ideas of, you know, progress is not one of

447

01:12:53.100 --> 01:13:06.330

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Infinite expansion right it's one in which we are all intimately connected and interconnected and every action has a reaction in kind of in humanity and nature in the universe. And so there are some young people.

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01:13:06.870 --> 01:13:18.450

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In some conversations among certain collectives that are trying to kind of further develop this idea and think about it in a generational context. Like, what does it mean what does good living mean to a young person who

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01:13:18.750 --> 01:13:21.990

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Has all these different messages and way in which they're moving through the world.

450

01:13:23.160 --> 01:13:26.040

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): That their, their parents and their grandparents didn't so

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01:13:27.150 --> 01:13:39.480

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): You know, I think when young people start talking about the right to not migrate. A lot of times they're, they're also talking in a context of of when we leave. But I think it's important to kind of have a paradigm shift and what development really means.

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01:13:41.940 --> 01:13:53.970

Claire Adida, UCSD: Did you want to speak more to so so I want to skip to this new question from David buddy Sean where I think it's, you might have already answered this, but you wanted to hear more about

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01:13:54.990 --> 01:14:06.510

Claire Adida, UCSD: How migrant youth negotiate their indigenous cells in their migration. So how it looks like for them as they migrated within Guatemala and then through Mexico and then in the US, did you want to speak more to

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01:14:06.510 --> 01:14:06.870

That

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01:14:07.890 --> 01:14:13.440

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Sure, I can just mentioned briefly. You know, I think that certainly within what the Mullah, you know, as I mentioned,

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01:14:14.190 --> 01:14:21.180

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Young people are following similar migration patterns that their grandparents and their great grandparents have have followed. So I think looking at

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01:14:22.020 --> 01:14:25.320

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Migration within this historical context of violence and marginalization.

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01:14:26.100 --> 01:14:35.640

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And you know as young people understand their experiences. You know, it's always been this way we've always done this right. What does that. What does that really mean and how much do they really know you know i think that

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01:14:36.570 --> 01:14:43.560

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): There's a lot of knowledge and information and experiences about even though, aren't conflict that, you know, David. As you will know,

460

01:14:44.220 --> 01:14:48.930

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): doesn't get talked about doesn't get taught in school, even though it's it's required under the the piece of chords.

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01:14:49.260 --> 01:14:57.240

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so I think young people have this sense of, of what happened and and kind of bits and pieces that may not understand the full kind of totality of it.

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01:14:57.900 --> 01:15:05.790

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Young people do talk about. There's one girl that I write about in the book, who talks about ways in which you mask your indigenous identity, particularly as you're moving through

463

01:15:06.090 --> 01:15:14.580

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Mexico right so ways in which they are masking their gender right taping their chests down changing their clothes cutting their hair short

464

01:15:16.890 --> 01:15:20.430

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And and also ways in which you try to hide your indigenous identity.

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01:15:20.640 --> 01:15:27.990

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In part, this is what families talk about when they're saying, you know, we need to make sure it's somebody that speaks Spanish that's migrating right which child speak Spanish, the best

466

01:15:28.260 --> 01:15:37.770

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Because that way when they're if they're stopped and tested and may he go they can answer the questions and they're not presumed to be indigenous and deported. Dr. Guatemala, so

467

01:15:39.390 --> 01:15:47.640

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And then the other young people talk about, you know, as if their parents were deported. There's one young girl who mentioned, you know, her mom had migrated to LA and was deported from LA.

468

01:15:48.120 --> 01:15:52.740

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It was very reluctant to put her try back on right because of versus, you know, so many years of being

469

01:15:53.550 --> 01:16:03.510

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): In Los Angeles feeling like she needed to hide her indigenous identity for being, you know, the violence, she experienced as a result of that, and that kind of

470

01:16:04.140 --> 01:16:13.020

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Returning back and trying to see if she comfortable, you know, dressing in her try or she, you know, she wearing pants and this kind of western dress.

471

01:16:13.620 --> 01:16:19.230

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Was a point of contention between her and her mother, so that I think there are different ways in which people are responding

472

01:16:20.010 --> 01:16:24.630

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): But I do think that there are a number of young people who really who have been deported who

473

01:16:25.320 --> 01:16:33.030

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And even young people who are de facto deported right who trying to understand why did my parents migrate in the first place and and re learning their relationship to the land.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And to agriculture and to language and kind of this reclaimed process of reclaiming an identity that they kind of knew about but but really didn't understand the kind of the depths of the the implications of so

475

01:16:49.980 --> 01:16:52.620

Claire Adida, UCSD: Next question is from Cynthia Lubin LinkedIn.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: And the question is, thank you, Dr hydrant for sharing your process. I teach qualitative research methodologies. What advice would you have for researchers who want to work with youth who have been systematically and historically marginalized.

477

01:17:09.660 --> 01:17:22.830

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Thanks, Cynthia, it's nice to see to see your name. Um, yeah, you know, I think that it's that it's a challenge at, you know, I think, but there are such great opportunities in learning from young people and young people in in the lead.

478

01:17:24.150 --> 01:17:30.360

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): You know there's in one of the kind of workshops collaborative workshops we did we did

479

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Digital Storytelling and the process itself I think was really generative and that young people are telling their own stories on their own terms.

480

01:17:39.360 --> 01:17:45.510

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): There, you know, I'm I'm helping with the technology and kind of the structures of stories, but it's but it's how

481

01:17:45.900 --> 01:17:52.500

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): What young people choose to share and how they choose to share it is on their own terms. It's not something that I think we're talking about deportation today, right.

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): It's, it's really kind of opening it up. And so I think through that process. Young people are in the lead, and I'm here to support. Right. And so I think

483

01:18:03.930 --> 01:18:11.130

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Young people felt at least kind of what they shared was that, you know, they felt like they were learning something right with technology or with video or with audio and

484

01:18:11.490 --> 01:18:18.960

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Putting these these digital stories together even radio spots. We had a series of radio spots that were a minute long in multiple languages.

485

01:18:19.440 --> 01:18:28.140

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so young people decided what narrative, they, they wanted to include in these radio spots that went on the Community radios in their towns.

486

01:18:28.860 --> 01:18:41.100

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And so I think for me, particularly researching such a sensitive and violence traumatizing topic, you know, having worked at a torture treatment center that Cynthia, you also work that

487

01:18:42.570 --> 01:18:46.260

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): You know, not wanting to re traumatize young people. And so I think

488

01:18:47.310 --> 01:18:55.170

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): Following their lead and not asking those kinds of probing questions. But instead, letting them to reveal if and what they they want to share

489

01:18:55.530 --> 01:19:05.370

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And I really think had I done this work over one year, I wouldn't have been able to develop those relationships. And so I think bits and pieces of information.

490

01:19:05.910 --> 01:19:11.580

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And and details the stories and and ways and people kind of understood their lives came out over time.

491

01:19:12.510 --> 01:19:27.120

Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): And you know the book might make it seem like nice, nice and clean and neat and chronological but that's certainly not not how it came out during fieldwork. So I think that kind of long term sustained relationships are really important to doing

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Lauren Heidbrink, CSULB (she/ella): This kind of work.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Well that's all the questions that we have for now.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: So thank you so much again to dr hydrant, and to Dr. Holmes for your contributions and really appreciate it. And I want to thank you all for being here with us today. We

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Will continue next quarter again January 8 will be our next talk and I hope everybody has a safe and wonderful holiday season.

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Claire Adida, UCSD: Thanks, everybody. Thank you. Take care.

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